A soft whisper!

Well, as with most things, one size does not necessarily fit all...

This change may well be a good thing for those remaining stocked streams in much of the state that get at least some brook trout and also have a reasonable population of wild brookies. With the operative word being "may". Every stream is different and the actual impact will vary accordingly.

On the other hand, there are probably 20-30 (ANF or in the ANF region) currently ST-only stocked streams in Elk, Forest Warren, Jefferson and Clarion Counties where unless the Commission makes exceptions or a Co-op picks up the slack, this change could basically mean the end of the trout fishery, period.

That is likely to be a problem for no small number of folks.

If this is about gill lice though, I'm not sure what else can be done. It ends up being sort of a rock and a hard place situation.
 
WILDBROOKIE wrote:
all brook trout hatcheries have the potential of gill lice contanimation if put in a in wild or recovering wild brookies watershed so to be on the safe side they will be phasing out the hatchery stock
Click to expand...

Gill lice were found in brook trout in several streams in northern Centre County and it was traced back to a coop hatchery.

So taking this step to prevent further contamination of brook trout with gill lice seems like the right thing to do.

I think most people prefer catching hatchery browns and rainbows over hatchery brook trout anyway.

 
RLeep2 wrote:

This change may well be a good thing for those remaining stocked streams in much of the state that get at least some brook trout and also have a reasonable population of wild brookies. With the operative word being "may". Every stream is different and the actual impact will vary accordingly.

On the other hand, there are probably 20-30 (ANF or in the ANF region) currently ST-only stocked streams in Elk, Forest Warren, Jefferson and Clarion Counties where unless the Commission makes exceptions or a Co-op picks up the slack, this change could basically mean the end of the trout fishery, period.
Click to expand...

Which streams are you referring to?

(I don't think it would be spot burning to name them, as they are stocked streams.)
 
Hi Dwight..

I'm thinking a listing would include any stream in the region with a history of low baseline ph's that has only been suitable for brook trout from a stocking standpoint, at least pre-season. I guess examples would include Millstone Creek and its branches, Salmon Creek, The Branch, Tom's Run over in Cook Forest, Blue Jay, Coon Creek (Forest Cty), Beaver Run in the East Hickory drainage, Queen Creek in the same drainage, maybe Bear Creek, SB Tionesta and maybe Farnsworth Branch and the upper two stocked sections of WB Tionesta in Warren County. Big Mill in Elk County above the Ridgeway Reservoir. All these just off the top of my head. There are quite a few others in the same or similar class.

The thing about (probably most of) these creeks that is kind of ironic is that I would imagine they support some level of wild brook trout reproduction. But with relatively few exceptions during the high side of the way the streams cycle in terms of habitat and flow, I don't think many of them or very few, are probably capable of supporting a strong enough wild trout population to interest even most wild trout anglers, let alone compensate for the loss of stocking. I think this situation is more about geologic bad luck than anything to do with fishing pressure.

So, in terms of angling opportunities for the garden variety Pennsylvania trout angler, it could probably be seen as an overall loss. But as I said upthread, if this action is about gill lice, it almost has to happen. And that creates a dilemma.

My take, anyway..


 
The good thing would be that if some of those streams are in Forest Co, some could afford to be removed from the stocking program in my view. The number of streams stocked there is excessive.

Again, I have no info on how the more acidic stocked streams will be handled in the plan to phase out ST stocking. I will not speculate.
 
I largely agree, Mike. But if you were to ask the Tionesta or Marienville Chambers of Commerce or the state rep for the area, they'd probably dissent emphatically.

This is why my hat has always been off to those brave souls who actually try to do fisheries management for the sake of the fish in the face of this blizzard of folks who measure such thing by how many hotel rooms are booked on a given weekend...

Like I say, a dilemma.
 
RLeep2: Agreed...more than you might know.
 
birdog wrote:
The president of the local sportsman's club told me the fish commission will not be giving them any more brook trout to raise in their hatchery. Seems the whisper is spreading.
Click to expand...

Interesting...guess it may be true!
 
Several streams in Clearfield County were taken off the stocking list in the mid-80s because of acid deposition. They still held remnant brook trout populations which have since then recovered big time. Meanwhile, positive effects of the Clean Air Act have also kicked in. These streams are now fine wild brook trout fisheries. Moose Creek, just north of Clearfield, was added to the stocking program several years ago and the native brookies were devastated. Stocking was terminated this year and Moose Creek is currently recovering, as my catch records indicate.

Brookies are tougher than we once thought. Remember, they survived the massive damage to our forests and streams of the Logging Era and many other insults on Nature that humans have caused. Gill lice were just another and one we didn’t need. I just wish the PFBC would only stock triploid rainbows in order to eliminate the possibility of them reproducing and replacing more of our native Brook Trout fishery. It’s suffered enough already.
 
Mike wrote:
No rumor. Brook Trout are being phased out from PFBC Hatcheries down to a very, very low production level or none at all. Co-ops also will not be raising Brook Trout. Northcentral Pa already saw substantial state cuts in Brook Trout stocking in 2019. I have no knowledge and won't speculate as to what will occur on traditionally acidic streams where only Brook Trout were being stocked.
Click to expand...

Will they still use Brookies for trout in the classroom ?
 
Glad to see an interest. We really need to take a close look! Gill lice? Stocking? No Brook Trout? Brown stocking in a once was brook trout stream? Some may think, huge gains are being made! I, on the other hand, see losses, more substantial to huge gains. But that's just me! Any loss, to an already losing foundation, well, sooner or later the collapse will come!

We all played that game, remove a block, untill it comes crashing down. Many blocks have been removed in the last 10 years!


Who will remove the last block?

Maxima12
 
maxima12 wrote:
Glad to see an interest. We really need to take a close look! Gill lice? Stocking? No Brook Trout? Brown stocking in a once was brook trout stream? Some may think, huge gains are being made! I, on the other hand, see losses, more substantial to huge gains. But that's just me! Any loss, to an already losing foundation, well, sooner or later the collapse will come!

We all played that game, remove a block, untill it comes crashing down. Many blocks have been removed in the last 10 years!


Who will remove the last block?

Maxima12
Click to expand...

It would be unthinkable if the PFBC continued to stock or allowed stocking of brook trout when it is known stocked brook trout are carriers of gill lice which have a chance to infect our wild brook trout. Plus stocking brook trout increases the chances of altering the gene pool of our native fish. They are doing the right thing, but will surely take flak about it from anglers like you. On here, I believe the move is applauded.

Your constant lamenting about anything that is perceived by you of interfering with the stocking of trout or harvesting of trout really goes against the grain for the many of the conservation minded folks on this board.

More and more anglers care about conversation and C&R of wild and native trout that are not stocked over. There are plenty of places that share your philosophy, why not seek out those folks to get a more sympathetic ear about promoting stocked trout and trout harvesting.



 
To respond to the question regarding Trout In The Classroom: no more brook trout. Rainbows will replace brook trout. There will be an emphasis on educating the students on brook trout and their overall value in the scheme of things. In order to be consistent in our pursuit of protecting wild brook trout stocks we have to eliminate the introduction of any hatchery-originated brook trout even on the smallest scale.
 
Afishanado, I see your comment as rash! Yep, I don't think like you, I think like me! While my thoughts may not reflect yours, I am sure a memorandum of understanding can be achieved!

Work together! Is always on the first page!

So to you with respect! I'm your captain! Grand Funk Railroad!

Maxima12
 
maxima12 wrote:
Afishanado, I see your comment as rash! Yep, I don't think like you, I think like me! While my thoughts may not reflect yours, I am sure a memorandum of understanding can be achieved!

Work together! Is always on the first page!

So to you with respect! I'm your captain! Grand Funk Railroad!

Maxima12
Click to expand...

Just voicing my opinion. I feel you miss the mark far(ner)...

There are far too few native trout and native trout streams left in PA. We have to do everything to assure they survive. Not stocking this breed of fish and leaving only true natives in our streams is the right thing to do. It's really no sacrifice at all to any angler. No angler or sportsman should complain. If they do, they can't see the forest for the trees, or more aptly in this case, they can't see the stream for the water....

My hope is that some day you will walk outdoors and suddenly see both the forest and the stream.....they're beautiful!!

 
Unthinkable, yes, Damage has been done. Without a question! I agree, Severe damage. But, where were you when it started! You want the change! I applaud it. Your good nature, your thoughts, your belief! Your sense of great wisdom! Great wisdom, has a very high cost, to all! Actually, Great Wisdom, has no cost at all! Many place a money value on wisdom! A buck, made! Smell it! The smell of success! Why do you cover it with Perfume!

Maxima12

What you want, is what I had 50 years ago! Sad, you bet I am! You will never know! Call of the wild, you never heard it, it was inside you, all the time, adventure, skill, craft, you developed it and honed it and sharpened it, again and again! Till you became wild too!

I would rather fail twice, than live once!

Maxima12
 
I'm with Afish on this. The whole reason I even buy a PA license is to fish for wild trout-especially native brookies. The PFBC's mantra is "Resource First" which means that they have to put the welfare of the native brookies ahead of the wants/needs of fishermen who want to catch stocked brook trout. I'm sorry that things aren't as you remember 50 years ago, or that they aren't going to be in your mind. If you think that this is some grave injustice i.e. cessation of stocking brook trout, you can always visit Rainbow Paradise in Coudersport or numerous other fee-fishing places around the Commonwealth that offer stocked brook trout. I highly doubt that PFBC license sales are going to be impacted by the move. Hell, people love gimmicks. PA could do like WV and have Gold Rush Week where they cram Approved Stocked Trout Water with Lightning Trout aka Palominos. People will forget those stocked brook trout in short order. Life is good Maxi
 
You just don't get it! Look at the Hammersley post, Pounded, pounded and then poundead again! Look at the sentence pound- dead!

You want to save brook trout, a off the water is needed! But that's where the truth is. Loot, Loot rules, you know what I am talking about You fooled me once but not twice! Get this, Oh I caught 7 small brook and 3 native browns. Again and again and again! You think I am the killer, look in the mirror! You can try to fool me, but you are fooling yourself! I go there, I carry a fishing rod, just for looks, seems like I am looking for more than the tiny fish! Your probably the 40th to catch the little tiny brook trout! 3500 views, go and pound it again! Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! Time my friends to behold! I sometimes feel sorry! Very sorry~

Well, I guess I am looking for God! I will find him, sunning himself on a big rock, in the middle of nowhere! When I find him, I will ask, "how you doing". Then I think we will have a tale to talk about!

Maxima12

Seems I am back in true form!
 
Mike wrote:
RLeep2: Agreed...more than you might know.
Click to expand...

Well, that makes at least three of us.
 
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