2019 License News

Shorter version…

PFBC – Show me that the same, or reasonably similar, portion of the general license sale funds allocated to WT programs in recent years will continue, AND that the additional revenues generated from the voluntary WT Stamp will go to WT programs too, and I’ll support it with a purchase.

I have not purchased my 2019 license yet, so my $26.90 can still be won over. It's actually $53.80 at stake in my case since my fiancé would purchase it too. You have until 12/31 to show me the math. Weather permitting, I usually try to fish on New Year's Day.
 
sarce wrote:
Think some people are missing the key word. VOLUNTARY. Don't want to pay it, then don't - no need to grandstand and slam PFBC in the process
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The voluntary part is the part that has the potential to stink IMO. If they actually needed $26.90 from each WT angler to support the state's WT program, I'd want to pay it! Heck, if the math supported it, I'd have no problem with it being $126.90.

The lack of transparency, and the potential for the funds to be used for things we as WT anglers generally don't support, is the concern. Show us the math.
 
Swattie to the commish :p

show-me-the-money-meme.png
 
^ I can't say that scene didn't cross my mind.

I want to assume positive intent here, and I want to support this. Clearly. I fish for wild Trout as much as anyone in PA. Given what we know about where the costs mostly lie within the PFBC (stocking) though, it's just tough to do without clearly seeing the intentions, and the math behind them.
 
Swattie87 wrote:
^ I can't say that scene didn't cross my mind.

I want to assume positive intent here, and I want to support this. Clearly. I fish for wild Trout as much as anyone in PA. Given what we know about where the costs mostly lie within the PFBC (stocking) though, it's just tough to do without clearly seeing the intentions, and the math behind them.
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I completely agree with you , this definitely has a shell game feel to it . I still want to see where the save our susky funds were allocated any program as these should be completely transparent were the funds go . I will definitely donate once I get something in writing on were all the funds will be going.
 
Unreal.....does anyone on here donate to any charity or fund to help or benefit some cause?! How about TU or your local land conservancy?!
How did so many of this group learn to mistrust and even demonize our organizations and/or agencies.

Answer this > If you have no problem putting your money down on the bar for drinks or buying a ticket to a ballgame or movie, why would you balk at putting money down once a year to benefit the streams you fish and the hobby you love (if your posting on this FFing site responding to this thread, trust me, you have a FFing problem and are a FFing geek or nerd for sure).



 
I hate to admit it but the first thing that came to my mind was the Virginia Lottery. The VA lottery "donates" 1.5 million dollars per day to Virginia schools. How can our schools still be underfunded you say? Well, Swattie hit the nail on the head, the lottery funds programs that were formerly funded by the taxpayers. The Virginia assembly took the school funding and spent it else where and "replaced" it with lotto money. Unfortunately things like this are all too common in government. I'm not saying that's the case here but no doubt it's worth checking out.

Edit: afish, didnt see your post until after I posted, but actions like the one above have made me very suspicious of any government, regardless of intent.
 
afishinado wrote:
Unreal.....does anyone on here donate to any charity or fund to help or benefit some cause?! How about TU or your local land conservancy?!
How did so many of this group learn to mistrust and even demonize our organizations and/or agencies.

Answer this > If you have no problem putting your money down on the bar for drinks or buying a ticket to a ballgame or movie, why would you balk at putting money down once a year to benefit the streams you fish and the hobby you love (if your posting on this FFing site responding to this thread, trust me, you have a FFing problem and are a FFing geek or nerd for sure).
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Afish I'm am and always be allot cooler than you . What's wrong with asking for transparency . Most have no problem donating just want to know that their money is going to were they say it is . If they said please donate to the commish to help us out until we get our license increase I'm sure people would love to donate to help them out I know I would . This is the age of information and people want to be informed and know the facts especially when it comes to donations . Just read Ryans post look what's happening with Philadelphia's soda tax .
 
afishinado wrote:
Unreal.....does anyone on here donate to any charity or fund to help or benefit some cause?! How about TU or your local land conservancy?!
How did so many of this group learn to mistrust and even demonize our organizations and/or agencies.

Answer this > If you have no problem putting your money down on the bar for drinks or buying a ticket to a ballgame or movie, why would you balk at putting money down once a year to benefit the streams you fish and the hobby you love (if your posting on this FFing site responding to this thread, trust me, you have a FFing problem and are a FFing geek or nerd for sure).
Click to expand...

I donate to many charities, but not blindly without doing my due diligence. First off, their cause MUST be one that I support and feel worthy of a donation. Secondly, the charitable organization MUST show transparency in their financials, including how much of donations go to the cause and how much to overhead expenses. Blindly donating your money to anyone is simply being financially irresponsible.
 
afish - I'm just asking to know how the money's being spent, before I contribute to it. If we haven't heard time and time again in recent years that the PFBC is struggling under the costs of its stocking program I wouldn't feel this way. If all we heard is that the WT program was pulling the PFBC under, I wouldn't question it...I'd help support it. But that's not the case.

If the money's being moved around behind the scenes, and going toward things that ultimately hurt wild Trout in PA (stocking), why would I support that? If the PFBC, or anyone, is asking for my donation, I think it's completely reasonable of me to want to know how it will be spent.

I tell ya what...PM me the address for VFTU. I trust how they spend their money, and that the majority of it goes in good faith toward the betterment of wild Trout. My check for $26.90 will be in tomorrow's mail.
 
I'm not a fan of all of the separate stamps, I think it should be one license for everything. I don't think the voluntary donations are a bad thing either. When I get my non res PA license I'll probably buy one.

One of the first times I fished in PA I bought a license and thought the trout and salmon stamp was for LE tribs only. I got checked for a license, and got fined for no trout stamp. I tried to argue and say why would I spend the money on a non res license and then cheap out on the additional 7 bucks or whatever it was on the trout stamp. The game warden told me fly fishing was expensive I should have known better. He was kind of a prick but I learned my lesson to buy a trout stamp after that. After that incident I decided I didn't like the idea of special stamps, too complicated.
 
Two thumbs up to anyone looking to contribute.

Sending the donation to your local TU or a land conservancy or some other organization you feel helps the cause is okay too.

This permit is just yet another way to contribute and have it go into a fund dedicated to wild trout in PA.

I respect and trust the PFBC. They are far from perfect, but I believe they are there to do the best they can for the sport overall and they are severely underfunded right now and struggling to do the right thing.

My point really is do something positive. Think about giving a little time or money to a cause to help the sport you love and the stream you fish.

Those that take should also give. IMHO, just buying a fishing license once a year is not enough.

Again, clean streams and a clean environment helps more than just anglers, it benefits everyone.

How you help to make that happen is up to you.



 
acristickid wrote:

There’s a thousand points of light out there and it’s worth more $26
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I see what you did there. Clever. I have a lot of respect for 41. He was even an avid flyfisher.

I don't think the "you pay $26 for beer, food, baseball, whatever" argument people have thrown out applies in this situation. All those examples are point of sale transactions. The "wild trout stamp" is giving money to a government agency in blind faith. The same type of government agency where hunters fund birdwatching habitat.

I'd like to see where this "wild trout money" goes. I don't think that's too much to ask for a new program requesting money.
 
Some good info/links with actual facts about how the PAFBC uses funds;

Bold Italics are my comments

Warning: You may have to read a lot, understand how budgets work and generally think a fair amount. It is, after all, a fairly big organization with some pretty lofty goals and responsibilities. The understanding of the operation of an organism this big isn't something you can summarize in a paragraph. I'll save you some trouble though, they aren't squandering the revenue on Vegas hotel rooms and private jets.

A Performance Audit of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (2016)
Probably the best look at the financial situation at PAFBC.
http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/Resources/Documents/Reports/554.pdf

2017 Annual Report
This really helps to illustrate where they're at financially, as well as operationally.
https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/AnnualReports/Documents/2017annualReport.pdf

More generically;
Details about the agency from a yearly scale
https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/AnnualReports/Pages/default.aspx

Generically, but on a smaller scale;
Good info throughout these that should help illustrate how the agency works.
https://www.fishandboat.com/AboutUs/AnnualReports/Pages/StrategicPlanQuarterlyReports.aspx

Only providing some factual links to how the money might be used for these permits. It's worth noting that there is already a framework in place for these types of permits (beyond the lake erie stamps) and that it's probably a safe assumption that the funds for the voluntary permits will be earmarked the same way. See pages 49 & 50 of the "A Performance Audit of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission" document. In other words, I highly doubt money from the Voluntary Wild Trout & Enhanced Waters Permit fund will go to hatchery trout. By all means though, wait for confirmation from the agency on that.
 
Thanks silverfox. If I'm reading those documents right...I think I am...

The Bureau of Hatcheries is the single biggest expense generator in the system representing 27% of total Commission expenditures. More than the Bureau of Law Enforcement (22%), and more than double the Bureau of Fisheries Management (13%), presumably where wild Trout management resides. Staffing costs associated with those Bureaus are included in those figures.

Edit: I'm still at the same place. As long as the WT stamp revenue is a simple, direct ADDITION to the current level of funding for WT, and not a way to free up general license funds that would have otherwise been spent there, I'm all for it.


 
@Swattie87 That's correct.

The primary drivers with regard to expenditures in the current financial situation is the rising cost of fish production along with increases in employee retirement benefits and health care costs. Hatcheries employs the largest number of staff, so it's likely that a large chunk of the hatcheries money is supporting the employees (current and former).

Hopefully, these additional permits will generate enough money to do some meaningful things in their respective areas. Like it or not, the trout production arm is going to siphon a lot of money out of the general fund. So money for wild trout/habitat may actually get worse if people don't donate specifically for that purpose.

 
I would have liked a button/Stamp rather than a generic voluntary permit.
 
Why is it called "Voluntary Wild Trout Permit?"

It's not actually a permit, is it?

And why does it say it must be displayed?
 
I had not thought about this much; I thought I'd just buy one. But, with some of the comments, esp about having to display it, I have to wonder. As some of you have said, is this a precursor of things to come?
 
Once again, the "merchants" have seen the "concerned" fly fishing community coming a mile away with a $26 trout permit versus $11 for bass or musky.

They know we're dumb enough to pay $1000+ for a top end rod & reel while the spin/baitcasting crowd snickers while fishing their $200 combos, hence the discrepancy in the fees.

For the time being, I'll pass on the permits until the fees are equal across the board however, I'd gladly pay a higher annual license fee that takes from all who legally use the resource.

In the mean time, I'll make my annual donation to the CAP Program which benefits all who fish for anything anywhere and desire access.
 
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