Yellow Breeches section closed for stream work

[Bamboozle]

Trespassing is only trespassing when permission is not granted or implied.

It is as entirely within the realm of possibilities that adjacent land owners could grant permission to cross and access their property, as it is that Allenberry could deny access to theirs...

 

[wbranch]

Trespassing is only trespassing when permission is not granted or implied.

It is as entirely within the realm of possibilities that adjacent land owners could grant permission to cross and access their property, as it is that Allenberry could deny access to theirs...

Interesting logic. Does that mean you will walk through posted property to get to the river until told to stop, or are cited, by the local constabulary?

 

[Bamboozle]

Interesting logic. Does that mean you will walk through posted property to get to the river until told to stop, or are cited, by the local constabulary?

Huh????

When permission is NOT granted or implied (which is how I defined trespassing in my post above), that typically means the property is posted.

I don't trespass on posted property under any circumstances.

Unposted property is assumed to be open to access however, when I know I am crossing or accessing unposted property where there is a home, I knock on the door and ask to be sure.

My point was, in a previous post it was implied that the owners of the two adjacent NON-Allenberry owned parcels (that can also provide access to one side of the DHALO section from below the Run, almost to Allenberry) have posted or will post their property IF the day ever comes that Allenberry shuts down access.

In other words, if you crossed their property to get to the creek, you are trespassing.

Well as far as I know, those parcels aren't posted currently since there aren't any NO TRESPASSING signs on that side of the creek. At least in most folk's eyes, that implies crossing those parcels now wouldn't be considered trespassing.

If they are posted now, it may only be because access is granted on the Allenberry side of the creek so it really isn't necessary for those landowners to allow it. There also is no guarantee they wouldn't allow access if they presently don't... if the day ever comes that Allenberry denies it.

There are a lot of folks that have suspicions regarding this project that Allenberry is getting stream improvements on the public's dime and will shut things down once it is done. I admit I am suspicious too, but not to the point of assuming it is a forgone conclusion.

There are a lot expenses Allenberry would HAVE to incur that they don't have now if that ever happens like buying their own fish, hiring security to patrol their property to prevent poaching and maintaining the stream improvements. They also DON'T own both sides all the way to Mountain Road, which one would assume they would have to purchase to truly close it down and make it a private fishing club.

So maybe it just doesn't make financial sense and a lot of folks are worrying for nothing...

Bottom line, we'll see...

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Yellow Breeches in this section would also likely be deemed a navigable stream in court which would allow people to float regardless of Allenberry's wishes. To my knowledge though the navigability issue has not been to court yet in the case of Yellow Breeches.

 

[wbranch]

Huh????

When permission is NOT granted or implied (which is how I defined trespassing in my post above), that typically means the property is posted.

I don't trespass on posted property under any circumstances.

Unposted property is assumed to be open to access however, when I know I am crossing or accessing unposted property where there is a home, I knock on the door and ask to be sure.

My point was, in a previous post it was implied that the owners of the two adjacent NON-Allenberry owned parcels (that can also provide access to one side of the DHALO section from below the Run, almost to Allenberry) have posted or will post their property IF the day ever comes that Allenberry shuts down access.

In other words, if you crossed their property to get to the creek, you are trespassing.

Well as far as I know, those parcels aren't posted currently since there aren't any NO TRESPASSING signs on that side of the creek. At least in most folk's eyes, that implies crossing those parcels now wouldn't be considered trespassing.

If they are posted now, it may only be because access is granted on the Allenberry side of the creek so it really isn't necessary for those landowners to allow it. There also is no guarantee they wouldn't allow access if they presently don't... if the day ever comes that Allenberry denies it.

There are a lot of folks that have suspicions regarding this project that Allenberry is getting stream improvements on the public's dime and will shut things down once it is done. I admit I am suspicious too, but not to the point of assuming it is a forgone conclusion.

There are a lot expenses Allenberry would HAVE to incur that they don't have now if that ever happens like buying their own fish, hiring security to patrol their property to prevent poaching and maintaining the stream improvements. They also DON'T own both sides all the way to Mountain Road, which one would assume they would have to purchase to truly close it down and make it a private fishing club.

So maybe it just doesn't make financial sense and a lot of folks are worrying for nothing...

Bottom line, we'll see...

 

[wbranch]

I misinterpreted your post.

 

[STONEMAN]

In regards to folks disregarding the CRALO regulations...

If they were fishing bait they were also most likely harvesting or planning to harvest. If it was me, I would have said nothing and ratted them out by calling South Central Regional Law Enforcement (717-486-7087).

I've ratted out other A-holes there and on the Run and the WCO responded promptly.

IMHO - A citation goes a long way to wise-up folks that definitely know better...

Had they not moved, I was going to call. They clearly were going to harvest.

 

[joebamboo]

There is a group that have been poaching that section for a couple years now. The now retired WCO cited them on several occasions. With no WCO regularly assigned to this area, it may become open season for poaching. That being said, we all need to be vigilant and make the call should we observe illegal activity.

 

[Bamboozle]

Many years ago, I put the phone numbers for all of the Regional Law Enforcement Offices for the PFBC, PGC and the main number for DCNR into my cell phone.

That makes it easy for me to rat out violators (which I do in a heartbeat) and I have even used 911 on occasion who know how to get in touch with the proper authorities.

Maybe I watch too much Lone Star Law, but I am of the opinion that 99.999999% of violators are lairs and are fully aware they are breaking the law. They are doing because they can get away with it.

However, it isn't up to me to confront people breaking the law to educate them. That could escalate into something that will get me locked up. 😉

I'll leave it to law enforcement...

 

[salvelinus]

Maybe I watch too much Lone Star Law, but I am of the opinion that 99.999999% of violators are lairs and are fully aware they are breaking the law. They are doing because they can get away with it.

Several years back we saw two guys from Ohio fishing the Kettle Creek FFO with spin rods. We informed them that it was FFO so they begrudgingly left. Oh we didn't know they said. They knew exactly what they were doing as there was a poster right where their car was parked.

 

[albud1962]

This bunch of poachers are serial and I had a run in with them several years ago. I took photos and continued to challenge them whenever I encountered them. They had a look out and hightailed it before the deputy WCO reached the stream. I called PFBC numerous times directly from the stream but I guess they never were prosecuted or got off when the case came before the magistrate.

 

[lestrout]

Yo alb

Would it be out of order to post the photos of the poaching perps?

 

[albud1962]

Les I have attached one of the photos from my FB post back in 2020 which many of the PAFF regulars might have come acrossed. I witnessed this individual on multiple occasions including once using a cast net. This is across from the sycamore near the power line at Allenberry. I post this reluctantly as I want to avoid any accusations that this photo is being posted out of context ie photo from another stream section or stream. He was not using artificial lures.

 

[joebamboo]

Yep, he is a regular Breeches poacher.

 

[wbranch]

Les I have attached one of the photos from my FB post back in 2020 which many of the PAFF regulars might have come acrossed. I witnessed this individual on multiple occasions including once using a cast net. This is across from the sycamore near the power line at Allenberry. I post this reluctantly as I want to avoid any accusations that this photo is being posted out of context ie photo from another stream section or stream. He was not using artificial lures.

Bog guy, he doesn't look like the kind of guy who will listen to reason.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

^Pictures tell a 1,000 words. I think that Cro-Magnon would only respond to getting his teeth kicked in. There used to be a tag-team that would poach the Run- either at the spillway or under the wooden footbridge. When they did the spillway, one would be a lookout. The other would snag a trout real quick from the wall. Then he'd simply cross the street and throw the trout on a stringer. Anyone walking by would think he caught the fish out of the lake. They'd take turns until they each had their limit or it started getting really busy with people and then they'd leave. Disgusting

 

[lycoflyfisher]

If you watch this occur why not video it on your phone and send to the PfBC regional office?

 

[Bamboozle]

You have to wait them out, get their license plate number and be willing to rat them out and testify.

Been there, done that!!

 

[albud1962]

If you watch this occur why not video it on your phone and send to the PfBC regional office?

Oh i also had video. How much more do I need to do short of physically accosting them? I would verbally challenge them every time i would see them. Unfortunately other people fly fishing while i was there didnt feel compelled to get involved or to say anything. I was pretty much on my own.

i did what i could.The fish commission didnt appear to have the resources or interest for enforcement. Deputy Houser did come out and seemed to care but they always packed up before he arrived and he never caught them bait fishing in the special regulation section. I have learned the WCO position for Cumberland county is now vacant. The area probably wont be patrolled.

I enjoyed fishing that section but i have found other productive areas to fish without having to get upset. I am sure the area will be crowded and unfishable this spring and summer. In my opinion the improvements will probably not do much to improve the fishing. There are other groups on the Breeches routinely removing woody debris thinking they are making it better for fishing. I am not sure this improvement accomplishes much when the banks of other public areas on the Breeches are stripped of vegetation (Barnitz Mill) and natural habitat such as fallen trees is being removed (Williams Grove).

The state used to stock the CR section more regularly putting in about 1500 fish ; however, for the last several years only 600 browns are being stocked along with several buckets from YBAC. The fishing is so bad there now that even the herons have moved on. Last year I only saw two when there used to be about 4 or 5.

 

[joebamboo]

FYI, YBAC stocks approx. 37,000 trout throughout the Yellow Breeches each year. We are required by Fish and Boat to put in a certain percentage to each section we stock. We float stock all sections and put in much more than "several buckets" to each.

The new stream improvement to the C&R section is now completely covered in gray silt. Don't expect any white fly or hex hatched for a few years.