****y Knight nymph

[Talyn]

Hi,

I grew up in western PA (Butler Co.) but have been living out west for 35 years. When my dad, brother & I went trout fishing we went to our camp in the Wilcox/Elk Co. area. Dad used to give me the ****y Knight nymph to fish with and I did very well with it.

No one out in my area (Montana) had heard of it, but I would like to try it out here due to my success back there back in the day.

There's almost nothing on the web on it, and I only have found an old ~1967 PA Fish & Game News article on it that doesn't provide much help on tying it.

#1 - Is there a fly shop back there that ties it commercially?

#2 - Does anyone have a detailed recipe for tying the ****y Knight?

I'll be going back to PA later this spring to visit family and would like to find a source for some to bring back to MT, or order from anyone that ties it back there.

Any help is appreciated.

Regards

 

[FlyGuyGlen]

A quick google search turned this up for me. Not sure if its what you're looking for.

Hope it helps some.

 

[nomad_archer]

Is there any pictures of the nymph? We maybe able to dissect the pattern and get you close to what the recipe maybe.

 

[Talyn]

FlyGuyGlen,

"A quick google search turned this up for me. Not sure if its what you're looking for.

Hope it helps some."



Thx I found that already.

 

[Talyn]

Nomad Archer,

None that I can find via Google.

I talked with the guy running the Neshannock Creek Fly Shop in Volant and he knew of the fly, used to tie it years ago and said it was one of those older legacy flys our dads and grand dads used.

I called a shop in Lower Burrell and a shop in Cabot but haven't heard back.

There's 2010 thread where a JackShook mentioned that he used it. Nothing else here on a search.

I have to dig through my files to find the PA F&G news article since it's dissapeared from the net.

Thx!

 

[mike_richardson]

if you get a picture of it I am sure we can get it made for you. I am anxious to see what it is.

 

[Talyn]

I found my file. It was in the June 1967 issue of the Pennsylvania Angler not PA F&G News. Page 17. The ****y Knight Nymph by ALBERT GRETZ, JR.

The recipe is on one page with eight small figures of B&W pics.

I googled it up and found a link via the PENNSYLVANIA ANGLER LEGACY ISSUES.

http://www.fishandboat.com/Transact/AnglerBoater/LegacyIssues/1960s/Documents/06june1967.pdf

The gentleman from the Neshannock Creek Fly Shop said that lynx tail wasn't available anymore since that is used to make the body. But out west there are fur farms that raise lynx so there must be a source, or perhaps an alternative like Bobcat, that can be used. ???

I haven't tied a fly in ages but need to get back into it, and would like this one to be my first for sentimental reasons to dive back into tying. But would like to get some examples in various hook sizes to try out here and use as examples.

BTW I could never get the hand of dry fly fishing so I want to stick to subsurface flies.

The author describes using reddish-brown lynx tail fur, but also says if it has grey underfur to trim down to the grey. The ones that dad gave me were mostly grey and I mistakenly now, always thought it was muskrat fur. But there were small sprigs of reddish-brown mixed in which must have been the hackle.

Would also like to know if this could be tied hook up to reduce the potential for snags since it's supposed to be fished deep.

I fished it just like the author described with BBs. When drawing it up after a drift I used to get a lot of action also.

Some of my best fishing memories on the West Fork of the Clarion and Rocky Run around Wilcox, and Sevenmile Run north from our camp on the Rasselas/Wilcox-Clermont Road.

It would be great to keep this old legacy nymph from going extinct since it used to be very popular with our ancestors.

I haven't seen this fly in ~40 years since the last time I went spring trout fishing with Dad (he passed when I was 23).

Any further help is much appreciated. Feel free to EM me.

Thx Mile and Nomad (Trevor?)!! BTW all your other flies on the other threads are super nice.

I'll be back there for 2 weeks in mid-May and am willing to travel from SE Butler Co a reasonable distance to rendezvous if possible.

 

[dc410]

It looks like a very simple tie. Many older patterns like this are simple. I wouldn't get hung up on the Lynx tail. I'd use any number of natural furs (muskrat, beaver, mink, squirrel- gray or fox), mix and match to take on a reddish-brown to gray color. May want to consider tying it in split thread or in a dubbing loop. Tie in some black bead chain eyes (Clouser style) up front to get it to ride hook point up and you may not even need the split shot. I'm sure it will catch lots of fish. Could be a good carp fly!

 

[Talyn]

dc410,

Thanks for the feedback, and good point on the tie to make it ride hook up.

Maybe this legacy nymph can become well-used again!

I'm hoping that if I can get some out here to Montana it will be as successful as it was for me when I was a kid in PA.

Regards,

 

[Talyn]

I've been trying to read up some more on wet flies and nymphs.

I've found D. Hughes' "Wet Fly" and D. Klausmeyers' "101 Favorite Nymphs and Wet Flies" books very informative.

Plus, N. Karas book - Brook Trout is a great read on the species history in N. America, and reminds me of finding brookies in little creeks in Elk County.

BTW, brook trout are very common here out and really took off when introduced out here. They are considered an invasive species and cross with native Bull trout which is a threatened species. The state fishing regs. are very liberal for them in order to control their populations.

When I come back east I'd like to search out some Eastern nymph and wet fly books that may not be seen out here.

Any recommendations and sources are welcome.

 

[nomad_archer]

I dont know what the original looked like but this is what I came up with using fox tail in a dubbing loop and a brown bugger hackle. It will probably look huge it was tied on a #6 6xl hook. I modified the recipe a bit and added a wire rib to reinforce the hackle. How close are we to the original?

 

[nomad_archer]

I plan to fish that on a dead drift and through the swing like I fish a woolly bugger on small streams.

 

[Talyn]

The original had a much fatter, furry & darker Thorax/body and the hackles were much much sparser behind and in front of the two more prominent wraps in mid-body.

In Figure 7 & 8 of the PA angler article you can see what I mean.

I'd head towards more like a Hare's ear nymph without the turkey tail feather wing case.

But that fly is interesting, and as we all know give it a try and hopefully the trout will really like it.

I agree on your plan on how to fish it, and did the same with the ****y Night. I did get lots of action when I did a lift at the end of the drift. I still remember one nice trout that actually came out of the water and then down on top of the nymph to take it when I finally brought it up to the surface in one pool. I vividly still remember that.

BTW big flys are popular out here for big trout (Browns) on the three central MT rivers plus on the Missouri River below Canyon Ferry dam.

 

[nomad_archer]

Thanks for the feedback. I tied it basically like I would a wooly worm which I like to go heavy on the hackle. with that pattern. I also cut all the dark grey/black tips out of the fox tail. I will leave them in on the next go round.

I was viewing that document on my phone so those details were tough to make out. If you don't mind, I will continue to try to recreate this pattern an post pictures here for your feedback until we get pretty close.

 

[nomad_archer]

Looking at the pictures I just wanted to make sure I am seeing this correctly. Tapered body and hackle about a hook gap in length evenly palmered over the body. It is tough to see the hackle in the picture.

 

[nomad_archer]

Ok I couldnt wait. I through this together this morning. I also wonder if a coyote tail might give you a darker body color. This is a #8 2xl streamer hook. I did add some lead wraps for weight.

 

[nomad_archer]

Here is one tied with bunny fur in a dubbing loop

 

[Talyn]

"I was viewing that document on my phone so those details were tough to make out. If you don't mind, I will continue to try to recreate this pattern an post pictures here for your feedback until we get pretty close."

"Looking at the pictures I just wanted to make sure I am seeing this correctly. Tapered body and hackle about a hook gap in length evenly palmered over the body. It is tough to see the hackle in the picture."

Hi there,

I imagine that those figures were tough to see on a phone.

I think you're getting closer with the first (#16) example regarding body shape/fullness, and sharper/sparser tail. I think the color and size of the head on this one is more accurate to what I remember.

But the second one (#17) is much much closer to the body color I remember likely due to your use of bunny fur in a dubbing loop. However, the tail on this one seems to be too big/much from my memories.

I think the hackles on the #17 example look much more like what I remember.

So I would try next the #16 body shape & fullness, head size and color, and tail shape and size with the body color and hackle pattern/size of #17.

I appreciate your work on this. I think it's exciting to resurrect an old legacy pattern that our ancestors used to use alot.

 

[Talyn]

One question for those working on this. While the author in 1967 PA Angler article specified a #8 sized hook, what smaller sizes could be practically tied in this pattern with a #8 being the largest?

Just curious based on your collective experience.

Thanks again!

 

[Talyn]

One thing I want to say is I really admire the skill of dedicated fly tiers. While this pattern is fairly simple, in my readings it seems now-a-days the "art" of fly tying has advanced so far in the amazing detail and realism. I've seen examples of modern patterns that are truly outstanding. Plus the use of new materials (rubber & foam)compared to what our ancestors had at hand.

There's a Sportsmans Show this weekend in Missoula that I'll be going to and they'll have several seminars there that I'll be going to.

http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2017/03/outdoor-adventures-begin/

Regarding new materials, one local tier, Tony Tomsu uses foam to tie his skwala stonefly and other patterns.

http://www.riverroadcreations.com/images/StondflyUnderbodySm.JPG

I'm looking forward to getting his latest book. He's an article on him.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/world-renowned-fly-tyer-tony-tomsu-shares-his-secrets-in/article_127d4aee-0cf6-51c8-bc98-cd941821dce2.html

and his website. http://www.riverroadcreations.com/

The skwala stonefly hatch is coming up this month on the Bitterroot River that's about 1/2 mile from me. It's a popular medium-sized river to float and shore fish/wade on in places.

Also, in one of the local papers another local tier, Ron Falk will be at the Sportsmans Show with his dubbing brush tool. I'm looking forward to seeing that.