Wooly Buggers and San Juan worms

[Baron]

Please help, I can’t take it anymore. 1) With the exception of pickerel on white I’ve yet to catch anything else on a wooly. 2) I’ve never caught nor even seen a swipe at the San Juan Worm.
There must be a technique that I am missing or something. I seem to do okay with various nymphs. But never a thing on black, brown or olive buggers and Worms.
In the Delaware and Martins Creek I cast slightly upstream and let it drift while coarsest stripping back to me. The next cast I dead drift and everything in btwn. Nothing. Last summer I even cast into visable pods of bluegill and Bass and they didn’t even watch it.
I’m thinking that it’s the time of day,, temp, time of year. But it must be my technique.
Same with the Worm that so many have recommended.
Could someone please help. I’m crotchety and cranky but am an eager learner and, more than that, I’m thankful.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Dead drift on the BOTTOM. If your not getting hung up your not fishing deep enough. GG

 

[troutbert]

Streamers work best when the water is murky, such as after a rain.

Also, they work better when light levels are low than when the sun is bright.

 

[BruceC2C]

Hang in there
May I suggest following:
Commit to learning/ using a NON SLIP LOOP KNOT.
Might need to over compensate w split shot to 100% confirm u r working bottom third of water column.
During this training phase stock up on " budget\cheap flies".
That way u can better commit to your delivery skills without worry of fly money lost with bottom level snag hazzards.
The trout don't know the difference between a .89 cent bugger and one the is 2x that cost.
Keep it simple and just fish black #8 buggers ALL THE TIME
Of course there are a gazillion YouTube tutorials, the one below from
Red's Fly Shop is taught by one of my favorite guide/ gurus.
How to Fish Streamers on a Floating Line While Wading
Stay with it. It will click for you.

 

[Baron]

Oh I'm not giving up, that's for sure, not when I have so many willing accomplices. If I were to line up all three above comments I'd say I failed on all three. The stream I fish is rarely murky, I'm not dead drifting it. I'm not all the way on the bottom and I usually fish in the bright of mid to late afternoon when it is bright.
Oh, the one thing I did right , I bought cheap flies.
Today I was killing panfish and Pickerel with white Wooly Buggers and I just finished cleaning them. Wish I could catch trout as well with woolys. I'll be taking your advice and will re-post when I beat this thing.

 

[Baron]

Non-slip Loop knot, hmmm.

 

[tstooge26]

As said above I really only fish worms when the water is high and slightly off color I don’t have the same success with the worm in clear conditions

 

[Baron]

Well that would be an issue as this is clear water?

 

[SteveG]

Keep in mind the water type and conditions you're fishing, then worry about fly selection. Just bc a fly is well regarded doesn't mean it's the ideal fly for a given situation.

 

[Baron]

Yes Steve. You remind us to check our own perceptual deficiencies. And that may be my problem as much as any other issue. Wooly work well on the lakes I've used them on for warm water species.

 

[MD_Gene]

When I started fly fishing a wooly bugger was my primary fly for stocked fish. Fish it close to the bottom. Now, when I fish my local streams for wild browns one of my go to flies is a pink SJW.

 

[Baron]

I have a couple versions of San Juan worm. Not much going on there either. Never caught trout on them. couple sunnies and perch. Mine are red. Had pretty good results from estaz topped gummy worms.

 

[tomgamber]

The beauty of f bugger is that it can be almost anything you want to be. You can swing it, strip it, dead drift it, bounce it off the bottom, I've even trolled them from a canoe with a small electric motor to catch Kokanee. I have even caught fish on the surface with heavily hackled, unweighted woolly worms.

The right color, size and presentation, just like any other fly fishing you do. Often rather than succumb to the fishes wishes, I challenge myself to be able to catch them on what I have rather than what I think they want. Its a great exercise in learning how to present flies in different situations. I always found that if I could make them take a fly that "wasn't the right fly", think how easy it would be when you have the right fly.

Buggers are a great teaching tool.

 

[Baron]

tomgamber wrote:
The beauty of f bugger is that it can be almost anything you want to be. You can swing it, strip it, dead drift it, bounce it off the bottom, I've even trolled them from a canoe with a small electric motor to catch Kokanee. I have even caught fish on the surface with heavily hackled, unweighted woolly worms.

The right color, size and presentation, just like any other fly fishing you do. Often rather than succumb to the fishes wishes, I challenge myself to be able to catch them on what I have rather than what I think they want. Its a great exercise in learning how to present flies in different situations. I always found that if I could make them take a fly that "wasn't the right fly", think how easy it would be when you have the right fly.

Buggers are a great teaching tool.

I use them but they make me grumpy and cruel.

 

[Blackhackle]

San Juan worms are sort of like globugs, if they aren't on the bottom, most of the time they are not very good. At least for me, I find them a seasonal fly: good in the spring and fall, not so good in the summer, have never fished them in the winter. My guess is there is more water in those seasons and more likely to be real worms in the drift. Only color I use is red, #12, 1.5 to 2 inches long. Just a few wraps securing the chenille in the middle so the ends can wave in the current. Almost always fish with a BB split shot or two.

If I could only have one fly it would be a sparsely tied #10 black woollybugger. As other people have mentioned it works best dead drifted along the bottom where the maribou can do its thing. Best in slower or still water. If retrieved slower is better, or a stop and go approach.

I would guess you just haven't been too lucky using both these flies. I am sure you will connect with them.

 

[Baron]

I'll be continuing my quest to catch a bass or a trout on any form of Bugger. When you say On the bottom what are you referring to? If I let these touch the bottom I'm stuck in several feet of Lily pads and milfoil and on the river I'd be snagged in rock and sticks. I guess I'm not working something right, yet, and not giving up.

Blackhackle wrote:
San Juan worms are sort of like globugs, if they aren't on the bottom, most of the time they are not very good. At least for me, I find them a seasonal fly: good in the spring and fall, not so good in the summer, have never fished them in the winter. My guess is there is more water in those seasons and more likely to be real worms in the drift. Only color I use is red, #12, 1.5 to 2 inches long. Just a few wraps securing the chenille in the middle so the ends can wave in the current. Almost always fish with a BB split shot or two.

If I could only have one fly it would be a sparsely tied #10 black woollybugger. As other people have mentioned it works best dead drifted along the bottom where the maribou can do its thing. Best in slower or still water. If retrieved slower is better, or a stop and go approach.

I would guess you just haven't been too lucky using both these flies. I am sure you will connect with them.

 

[Blackhackle]

Good point, you don't want to be hung up all the time. Depends on the water temperature, but around 6-12 inches. Don't have a lot of experience fishing buggers for stillwater bass, but when I did, fished the edge of weed beds and lily pads and along the bank. If there were largemouths around they would usually take near the bottom on the drop before it got there or with a stop and go retrieve I mentioned earlier. In fishing San Juan worms and globugs you should be ticking the bottom and getting hung up occasionally. Not unusual for trout to pick them both out of the gravel even when stationary. Of course fishing that way you will lose a certain number of flies. All three are simple ties though, have you thought of taking up fly tying?

 

[Baron]

Today another member referred me to one of his favorite sites and, while I liked it, the same flies that I'm paying .62 for they're asking 2.25. I've been wondering if I couldn't do a better job tying myself than what the discount shops do.
I'm in a condensed learning curve. Not particularly a fan of small stream trout fishing I find that the quest for trout sharpens me as a fisherman. The pursuit of trout forces one to pay much much closer attention to hatches, presentation and weather than for, say, Panfish, bass and other. That being said, If I began tying, it will be for panfish. After hitting 9-10" bluegills I've found my passion. And the coolest thing is that in the quest for them I noticed relationships they have with other species. Then of course there is the occasional Bass or Pickerel that makes BG fishing even more rewarding.
I'm going to try some sinking leaders and see if that doesn't get me down a bit further. It would be nice to sink without the hard spot created by shot.

Blackhackle wrote:
Good point, you don't want to be hung up all the time. Depends on the water temperature, but around 6-12 inches. Don't have a lot of experience fishing buggers for stillwater bass, but when I did, fished the edge of weed beds and lily pads and along the bank. If there were largemouths around they would usually take near the bottom on the drop before it got there or with a stop and go retrieve I mentioned earlier. In fishing San Juan worms and globugs you should be ticking the bottom and getting hung up occasionally. Not unusual for trout to pick them both out of the gravel even when stationary. Of course fishing that way you will lose a certain number of flies. All three are simple ties though, have you thought of taking up fly tying?

 

[melvinp]

Dont think for one second that tying your own flys is a cheap ordeal you have to look at it being able to create for own flys and catching something on something that you made yourself.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Like nearly all other hobbies, Fly tying is costly. You can spend more or less on materials, but I'm sure it's cheaper to buy flies. That said, I see fly tying as a creative craft. I started tying in the late 80s, following recipes and learning by doing.

Now I find it difficult to not add some variations and creativity to my flies, especially bass and streamer flies. To me, that's a big part of the fun: tie something new (or add a modification you think will work), test it out on fish, modify based on that experience, repeat.

This process has led me to trust a handful of bass patterns and simplify my fly box. It's kinda backwards, but it works for me.