Winter trout fishing impact

[afishinado]

From another thread about

moon1284 wrote:
Hard to know why the fish died but there should be a closed season from oct to march or april to protect wild trout.

I know some FFers advocate not allowing any trout fishing in the fall and winter at all. I wonder if there is some sort of study to point to that provides data that winter fishing has a significant negative impact on the wild trout population. Wild trout streams in PA are open to C&R fishing all fall and winter and the wild trout population is growing in most cases.

If the truth be known, I skip the fall for the most part becasue of spawning fish but I enjoy winter fishing a lot if the weather is fairly decent. The winter offers a time to fish with less crowds as well as less foliage to fight in smaller streams, plus no worries about temps too high for trout fishing.

Without hard facts, I would guess that summer fishing for trout in the many PA streams that warm to fairly high levels, kills many more fish than winter fishing.

Opinions?

 

[maxima12]

Hey man! What's your suggestion and I will follow up! Hate to go 1st, may end up on , "off the wall".

Maxima12

 

[afishinado]

maxima12 wrote:
Hey man! What's your suggestion and I will follow up! Hate to go 1st, may end up on , "off the wall".

Maxima12

My suggestion is post your opinion and contribute something meaningful to members without making everything a joke and riddle to bring attention to yourself. Your post above is off the wall. I guess you just can't help yourself.

 

[Dave_W]

afishinado wrote:
Without hard facts, I would guess that summer fishing for trout in the many PA streams that warm to fairly high levels, kills many more fish than winter fishing.

Opinions?

I'm inclined to agree with this assertion. ^

Like you, I'm an avid winter trout fisher.

However, the way I fish - shorter days due to cold, less wading, fewer stocked or aggressive wild trout to target etc. - means that I think I have less impact on trout overall and a significantly lower mortality (at least this is what I think).

Much speculation here - but a worthwhile topic to think about.

 

[moon1284]

You're probably right regarding summer temps killing more fish than fishing in the winter. I think takes 2-3 months for trout to hatch. I think the oct to apr closing is to protect spawning for both browns and rainbows (or other late winter spawning trout) - and pa has very few wild trout that spawn in winter.

 

[blkpowder]

I fish 365 days a year weather permitting. Had many wonderful days on the water November threw March and would be very disappointed if streams got shut down thenI find it very easy to spot redds and avoid them! As afishinado stated. I have never saw a study that winter fishing hurts the population. I would say mishandling of fish is the number one factor to a trout's death!

 

[afishinado]

moon1284 wrote:
You're probably right regarding summer temps killing more fish than fishing in the winter. I think takes 2-3 months for trout to hatch. I think the oct to apr closing is to protect spawning for both browns and rainbows (or other late winter spawning trout) - and pa has very few wild trout that spawn in winter.

Not to be a wise arse, but if we closed fishing in the fall because of spawning, the winter to protect the redds, and the summer because of high water temps, fishing would only be open for 10 weeks beginning in April and ending sometime around mid June.

 

[maxima12]

Afish, yes, your right in your post. Some do and some don't. Closed season during fall, closed season during summer, closed season during spawn, Here is the fact we must agree on. Everyone fishes his or her own way. Depending on life's duties, most fish when they can. Fishing is an enjoyment which I wish more could enjoy! Studies are all out there. Since we all are different, some studies we follow and some we do not!

You want an opinion? Well I have one. you will or not like it!

"Keep fishing any way you want, any time, any method". Yours in the end will be no better or lesser than mine!

Follow the law and the rules and you will be a better person.

Maxima12

 

[Bamboozle]

"Don't fish in the fall, the browns & brooks are spawning..."

"Don't fish in the spring, the rainbows are spawning..."

"Give the trout a break in the summer, the water temps are too high..."

"Fly fishing only, spin fishermen are killers, barbless hooks only, no light tippets, no wading, rubber nets, catch & release only, no stocking over wild fish, no stocking period..."

If some folks really cared as much as they want everyone to think they do, they wouldn't fish AT ALL which is the ONLY real way to protect the trout.

Zero mortality ONLY comes zero participation!!

As for me, I fish for trout when I feel like it. The ONLY exception is when the water temp in the stream I plan to fish is too high and I don't fish for spawners because I don't want anybody bothering me when I'm spawning. ;-)

Other than that, I am not sweating my seasonal transgressions. It's starting to get beyond ridiculous with all of the holier than thou, self imposed moratoriums around here.

QUIT FISHING for cripes sake if you are that worried!!

 

[SteveG]

I feel the "Winter" stocking the state just did is far worse than any c&r impact from Winter fishing.

The only issue I have observed with some people fishing during the Winter, is how long they keep the fish out of water while they do their glamour shots. I'm not a fisheries biologist, but I imagine that gills are more fragile to air exposure during the Winter due to the dryness of the air. Hopefully Mike can chime in on that.

I enjoy winter fishing, but wait until the adults have moved off of the redds, and still avoid walking on/near redds as eggs or fry may still be in there. Spring creeks, or warmer days on freestoners, provide the opportunity for some dry fly action during midge and baetis hatches.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

I like 'Georgia's approach. All streams except, a few special regulation ones, open all year.
The only ones listed in the Rules and Regulations Book are or have special rules and seasons. The rest just fish as you will.
I realize that Pa. has a ton of C&r and FF only with, but how many of them could be or would be better off if they were just open,period?
Thoughts? GG

 

[silverfox]

In an ideal world, people would know that when the weather is hot, fish a limestoner or tailwater (or target WM species). During the spawn, fish a stocked only water (keystone select?). Etc. In reality, there are a lot of ignorant people out there who either don't care, or aren't educated on what to do. They think there is an infinite amount of trout out there and they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and it wont have any impact. The entire reason we have a fish and boat commission is because of this mentality.

Closing fishing (or having specific rules on species handling) in the fall/winter is done all over the US and Canada (probably elsewhere too) where management has realized the importance of wild trout, and how managing wild trout is cheaper than stocking. If you rely on wild trout as the sole source of trout angling in the state, with limited stocking, you can't have people kicking up redds. That would be the equivalent of dumping a truck load of bleach in a PA hatchery and then wondering why there are no fish next April.

You can also manage closures based on stream type. No need to close a stocked only keystone select stream in the fall. This is all stuff that other states do already. PA is just behind the times (as always) on how to manage the resources. Traditions die hard in this state.

In my opinion, when you believe that trout only exist in this state because the white trucks start making their rounds in March, you tend to not know or care about wild trout, or whether they survive and reproduce. That's one reason I hate the whole hyped up season opener. It relays the message to people that trout only exist because of stocking.

 

[jifigz]

Whoa, hold on there Silverfox, I've stated my opinion on this matter before. First of all, if fishing for trout is banned in the fall and winter I will be rather angry. It is my favorite time of the year to fish for basically any fish, period. Now I do enjoy busting sunfish in the spring but overall, winter is my favorite time to fish. Plus, how can an unstocked stream like Spring which still gets hammered year round have so many trout? Spring Creek probably gets waded more than any stream in the state on a regular basis and it's doing fine. And then you think about all of the streams that are not that well know that are teeming with wild browns that hardly ANYONE fishes for most of the year. And then you factor in streams like Penns and the Little J that are still super famous and get hit by anglers in the fall/winter but there is so much water that the anglers can't possibly make that much damage to the redds.

Now, as far as fish dying after being caught in the winter I just absolutely see no problems there, because, while angling always harms a fish to some extent, winter and colder temps actually stress the fish much less than warmer water.

I know that people that value something are the people that protect it. We value trout and therefore look to do what is best for them. I like to hunt ducks and geese and want them and their habitats to be preserved so they are healthy just so, you know, I can kill them. Maybe we should place our grievances and still care about the welfare of the fish and stop hooking them in the head? Fishing and opportunities that change throughout the seasons and knowing how to catch fish year round is what truly makes a great angler. If we ditch half the year then we are just dumbing down our hobby and losing lots of precious time on the water, especially when our wild trout are doing wonderful.

On a separate note, trout are probably the EASIEST fish to consistently catch year round. There habits and locations really don't change much.

 

[silverfox]

jifigz wrote:
Whoa, hold on there Silverfox, I've stated my opinion on this matter before. First of all, if fishing for trout is banned in the fall and winter I will be rather angry. It is my favorite time of the year to fish for basically any fish, period. Now I do enjoy busting sunfish in the spring but overall, winter is my favorite time to fish. Plus, how can an unstocked stream like Spring which still gets hammered year round have so many trout? Spring Creek probably gets waded more than any stream in the state on a regular basis and it's doing fine. And then you think about all of the streams that are not that well know that are teeming with wild browns that hardly ANYONE fishes for most of the year. And then you factor in streams like Penns and the Little J that are still super famous and get hit by anglers in the fall/winter but there is so much water that the anglers can't possibly make that much damage to the redds.

Now, as far as fish dying after being caught in the winter I just absolutely see no problems there, because, while angling always harms a fish to some extent, winter and colder temps actually stress the fish much less than warmer water.

I know that people that value something are the people that protect it. We value trout and therefore look to do what is best for them. I like to hunt ducks and geese and want them and their habitats to be preserved so they are healthy just so, you know, I can kill them. Maybe we should place our grievances and still care about the welfare of the fish and stop hooking them in the head? Fishing and opportunities that change throughout the seasons and knowing how to catch fish year round is what truly makes a great angler. If we ditch half the year then we are just dumbing down our hobby and losing lots of precious time on the water, especially when our wild trout are doing wonderful.

On a separate note, trout are probably the EASIEST fish to consistently catch year round. There habits and locations really don't change much.

I probably worded my post wrong in terms of what I was trying to say. I've had more than a few vanilla porters today while wrapping rods and my head probably aint fully right. Hope the wraps hold...

You can fish 365 in PA and not impact trout reproduction. Summer, fall and winter. You should have a little sense about what the trout are doing though, and consider where and how you might have the least negative impact. Generally, I would imagine folks on this forum understand how to properly handle fish, where to wade, when to fish, where to fish etc. The general public though...

Which is probably the answer to your spring creek question. In all the times I've fished spring creek, I've rarely ever seen anyone fishing with anything other than a fly rod. I would wager that most people who fish spring are doing so with some common sense about fish spawning. That, and Spring, Little J, Penns and other somewhat large trout waters are just so big that the impact of wading is probably negated by the amount of unreachable (by humans) spawning habitat.

Which is why I said that things can be managed on a more granular level. Though I said "You can also manage closures based on stream type.", what I meant is that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition.

Maine is an example of what I'm trying to say; https://www.maine.gov/ifw/fishing-boating/fishing/laws-rules/statewide-laws.html

Where the state is trying to secure and enhance brook trout, it's closed to all fishing from October 1 to March 31st. South, where it's mostly stocked fish, you can fish year round. I know PA aint ME, but some approach to protect fish where it matters most is what I'm alluding to.

Also, as not to totally derail afish's post, regarding winter fishing for trout, I'd say the only potential negative impact would be redd disruption, or exposing the caught fish to sub freezing air temps for prolonged periods of time.

 

[RLeep2]

I think we could learn from the way Nature treats wild trout fisheries, as dynamic systems rather than zoological parks where every variable is within our control and has an equal opportunity to be over thought and agonized over.

While making wise choices about whether to fish during the spawn could certainly be seen as good, conservation-based thinking, it seems to me that things like Winter closures to protect fish during cold weather and similar ideas are about exercising an excessive level of fussiness that may have meaning to our own sense of good stewardship, but mean little to the trout in the larger picture.

But that's just me..

 

[Canoetripper]

I don't even pretend to be a biologist. I have had two stocked trout just flat out die on me when the water is warm that I all I ever wanted to do was release to live.

I fish with 5 wt. 3X tippet most of the time for stocked trout.

My mother lives in Aspen, CO. I don't ski any more when I visit. I am usually fishing with a guide in the winter targeting the many midge hatches.

I can't imagine the state of Colorado stocking the Frying Pan River.

I shut it down both in the winter and hot summer when it comes to trout fishing.

I am pretty confident that all of the fly shops in CO wouldn't harm their bread and butter fly fishing if the winter hurt their resource.

I don't know the answers. I am just sharing my experiences.

 

[ryansheehan]

I like trout because I enjoy fishing. If I had a trout's best interest at heart I would never fish. I love fall and winter time fishing. The streams that I fish year round the most are the Gunpowder and Savage. They are two tailwaters that are mostly browns. On any given year at peak spawning time you will find many fishermen hitting the water hard. I've been on the river many times to see people trounce right through redds, they are just oblivious. Both rivers have very high populations, some would argue too high but that's another thread. I just don't see it doing harm to the rivers I fish regularly.

 

[bigjohn58]

I'll go out a few times during the winter but mid/late fall I say let them spawn. If you want to fish for trout go up to NY and fish for the lake runs. I just do not think the added pressure of fishing over spawning fish is a good thing. It has to add stress and decrease the survival rate. In the winter though just use common sense when wading but I know common sense isn't so common these days.

 

[Swattie87]

Here’s my take…I don’t see any resource management reason to restrict the Trout fishing season in the Fall and Winter. Mainly because there’s not that many people Trout fishing then anyway…explanation below. A better case could possibly be made for restricting fishing during the Summer months, I think. But even then, there’s ton of places in PA that have safe Summer fishing temps even during big heat waves, so it’s not universally needed, and frankly, not many people are Trout fishing then either.

I think the angler impact to spawning success rates is negligible, and not statistically significant when coupled with other much larger scale factors…Weather, temps, flows, high water events, low water periods leading up to the spawn, etc. An angler knocking out a handful of redds (if that even happens) on accident isn’t a big deal. Fish not being able to migrate prespawn, or high water washing out the redds is, for that year anyway.

We all fish a lot, but we are few in numbers. Most Trout anglers don’t. Outside of the first few weeks of the Trout season in the Spring, or on a handful of large, well known wild Trout streams (Spring, Penns, Little J, BFC, maybe a few others) I hardly ever run into anybody else Trout fishing, especially in the Fall/Winter. No one is arguing there’s a population, or spawning success problem on any of those streams, and they get fished more than any other wild Trout streams in PA. So what’s the impact?

I’m not sure I’ve ever run into anyone else fishing the same small wild Trout stream as me in the Fall or Winter. Do they get fished in the Fall/Winter? Yeah, probably, some. A lot? No.

I don’t walk into obvious redds, and if I notice a ton of fish spawning on a given day, I pack it in. Or just hike and watch them. Other than that I don’t worry about it. I don’t fish a ton in Winter (the weather is often a limiting factor), but I do enjoy getting out on nicer Winter days when the afternoon temps get above 40 or so, and getting out into the woods. It’s good for Winter cabin fever. Fish more, worry about stuff like this, and type, less.

 

[ryansheehan]

bigjohn58 wrote:
I'll go out a few times during the winter but mid/late fall I say let them spawn. If you want to fish for trout go up to NY and fish for the lake runs. I just do not think the added pressure of fishing over spawning fish is a good thing. It has to add stress and decrease the survival rate. In the winter though just use common sense when wading but I know common sense isn't so common these days.

But aren't those lake run fish going up to spawn?