Wild Trout (trout camps 2.0)

[Mike]

So how do you propose the state achieves TRACS Action 10.0 for brook trout in the action plan? Or did PFBC write that just to make it look like we're addressing an issue without actually doing anything? That was established almost 10 years ago. How long until they actually do it? 10 more years? 20? 50? Meanwhile, our neighbors have been doing it for a decade. Other states in the east are already and have been, doing what you're explaining is impossible.

Here are the success rate numbers. Antimycin-86%. Rotenone-79%. Annual Removal Electrofishing-55%. Multiple Removal Electrofishing-65%. Translocation-73%

I don’t know; I didn’t write it. But I can tell you that in a typical small ST stream in Pa, perhaps the avg width of our smallest stocked streams (4.0 m), having done this a lot, a three-pass removal survey captures probably in the neighborhood of 90% of the trout. A one-pass electrofishing run captures about 70% of the legal size trout. Those EF removal rates you’ve listed I would hope would be from wider streams because, for example, even when electrofishing stocked trout streams in cold, higher water of March whose summer mean widths range from 4-10 m, the one-pass capture rate averages 70-75 % for typical stocked size fish.

 

[silverfox]

I don’t know; I didn’t write it. But I can tell you that in a typical small ST stream in Pa, perhaps the avg width of our smallest stocked streams (4.0 m), a three pass removal survey captures probably 90% of the trout.

That's what I would assume would be the first technique employed here. This is an old thread that got resurrected, but since it came up...

I mentioned this in the other thread, and I'm genuinely curious what this means. In the wildlife action plan, it says, "Remove brown trout in areas managed for brook trout." As far as I can tell, this has no definition or other meaning outside of the wildlife action plan.

There is also a bulletin 16. 50 Pa. B. 6903 - Statements of Policy that says, "A stream section managed for wild Brook Trout will not be considered for stocking."

The only other valid reference to anything like "managed for brook trout" is the definition of "wild brook trout fisheries," which is defined by species biomass composition (effectively "Classs A brook trout"). The remaining relevant language is all in reference to the defunct "wild brook trout enhancement program."

Again, I'd really like to know what "managed for brook trout" means in the wildlife action plan. The only thing that makes any logical sense is "Class A wild brook trout" sections. There are quite a few of those, and I'm really curious if the intent was to establish a program of BT removals in Class A ST streams. Regardless, it's apparent that it never happened (according to the data PFBC provided).

 

[Mike]

You’ve jogged my memory and there was a time when managing for wild trout specifically referred in that context to Class A streams, thus the probable origin of the no stocking comment. That language appeared long before the ST Enhancement Program.

 

[PennKev]

I'll dissent from this, especially the part about the Oil and French Creek drainages being "pretty devoid" of brook trout.

Agreed.

My experience has been that brook trout are fairly common in all the Venango county watersheds.

 

[rrt]

Because of this thread, my wife, her dog, and I made a drive to Bell's Run after church (and after visiting an antique car show where a friend of mine had his 65 Mustang on display with 150 other antique cars -- nicer looking cars than the ones we drive today).

Anyhow, I did not realize the reservoir was still empty, except for the machinery at the bottom where the mud/silt is all dried up. I guess they are fixing a lot of stuff there. I guess the reservoir dam is being strengthened?

Regarding this topic, I am now of the opinion that if the LJRA and the PFBC are going to electroshock the stream and try to remove the brown trout to help the brook trout, now is the time. There will not be a run of browns coming up from the reservoir -- at all -- to replenish the browns that are removed.

One could then hope that anglers would remove any remaining browns they catch.

This could be a viable way to help the brook trout, and I think now is the time to do it.

(I still do not know what the LJRA said about it at its August meeting.)

 

[rrt]

Maybe I should have posted this on the Bells Run thread.

 

[Acristickid]

I have fished a number of streams that had barriers- some of those were poisoned out. Granted these measures to the uninitiated may seem over the top but it’s really the only way to save a species of trout. Ingression and loss of habitat- #1 threats.

I have no problem with it.

Paiute Cutthroat Trout​

This species oddly enough was saved by an unwitting sheep herder who moved some Paiutes above a waterfall that was previous fishless. Around 1912.

Here is great information on it:

Paiute Cutthroat Trout

wildlife.ca.gov

 

[Tom1980]

I have fished a number of streams that had barriers- some of those were poisoned out. Granted these measures to the uninitiated may seem over the top but it’s really the only way to save a species of trout. Ingression and loss of habitat- #1 threats.

I have no problem with it.

Paiute Cutthroat Trout​

This species oddly enough was saved by an unwitting sheep herder who moved some Paiutes above a waterfall that was previous fishless. Around 1912.

Here is great information on it:

Paiute Cutthroat Trout

wildlife.ca.gov

Thank you for sharing this and speaking some logical sense.

 

[foxfire]

I have fished a number of streams that had barriers- some of those were poisoned out. Granted these measures to the uninitiated may seem over the top but it’s really the only way to save a species of trout. Ingression and loss of habitat- #1 threats.

I have no problem with it.

Paiute Cutthroat Trout​

This species oddly enough was saved by an unwitting sheep herder who moved some Paiutes above a waterfall that was previous fishless. Around 1912.

Here is great information on it:

Paiute Cutthroat Trout

wildlife.ca.gov

Thank you for the article Kid.