Wild Trout Trifecta

[Mike]

The bar is low for a Class A RT designation in comparison to ST, mixed ST/BT, and BT. For Class A RT the biomass of trout less than 150 mm (5.9 in) has to be 2.0 kg/ha (1.78 lbs/ac).

Pcray, thanks for the update. We may be speaking about the same Schuylkill Co stream where the evidence of RT reproduction was in the stocked section (Section 02). The GRT reproduction occurred in Section 01. I never found wild RT in the stocked section of its formerly stocked trib though, which at least sometimes suffered from warm water temps within its stocked portion (Section 02) due apparently to multiple abruptly contributing factors, but supported a good wild trout population above.

Regarding the more recent wild RT catches, it could be that the stream is privately stocked in a posted segment. That would potentially provide an adult source for reproduction.

 

[Peyton]

I got one done at french creek under a bridge. It was an 18" wild brown, 15" wild rainbow, and a 4" brookie. I was astonished that those fish weren't stocked, all had perfect fins and tails. And almost one at Clarks, 5" brook then rainbow the same size, but my dad caught the brown.

 

[JSky]

From an article in the PG “What constitutes a Class A fishery is how many pounds per acre of naturalized trout (under 6 inches) it can support. With browns, the European import first hatched here 120 years ago, it's 36 pounds. With brookies -- a native species -- it's 27 pounds. And with rainbows, a Pacific Coast transplant introduced here in 1888, it's a mere 1.8 pounds. There are just 12 documented Class A wild rainbow streams statewide -- at least half of them in Western Pennsylvania”

 

[Swattie87]

There was an older article published about one watershed in the state that has a good wild rainbow population. At that time (about 20 years ago) the state recognized a dozen streams with notable wild rainbow populations.

From an article in the PG “What constitutes a Class A fishery is how many pounds per acre of naturalized trout (under 6 inches) it can support. With browns, the European import first hatched here 120 years ago, it's 36 pounds. With brookies -- a native species -- it's 27 pounds. And with rainbows, a Pacific Coast transplant introduced here in 1888, it's a mere 1.8 pounds. There are just 12 documented Class A wild rainbow streams statewide -- at least half of them in Western Pennsylvania”

Just for clarity’s sake, this is the same article, and is from 2002. I don’t know the number on the Class A list now, but regardless of whether they are listed or not, there are far more than 12 streams in the state with documented Rainbow reproduction now. Old data. A lot has changed since that article.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

From an article in the PG “What constitutes a Class A fishery is how many pounds per acre of naturalized trout (under 6 inches) it can support. With browns, the European import first hatched here 120 years ago, it's 36 pounds. With brookies -- a native species -- it's 27 pounds. And with rainbows, a Pacific Coast transplant introduced here in 1888, it's a mere 1.8 pounds. There are just 12 documented Class A wild rainbow streams statewide -- at least half of them in Western Pennsylvania”

There are some mis interpretations in this post. To be listed as a wild trout stream, a survey must produce evidence of reproduction (ie yoy fish) and or multiple year classes of fish. For estimating biomass all wild fish captured are included. Not just those under 6in. It would take a thousand 6in or less wild fish to hit the brown trout Class A threshold of 40kg/ha in many streams.

I still think rainbow reproduction is a lot more limited than some folks in this thread think. Between state, trout in the classroom, and private folks a lot of fingerlings are stocked and they are quite mobile. With the amount of adult rainbows stocked there is always the chance of fluke reproduction success, but established wild rainbow populations are far from common.

 

[FarmerDave]

I still think rainbow reproduction is a lot more limited than some folks in this thread think. Between state, trout in the classroom, and private folks a lot of fingerlings are stocked and they are quite mobile. With the amount of adult rainbows stocked there is always the chance of fluke reproduction success, but established wild rainbow populations are far from common.

How do you know what people are thinking?

Guess what I am thinking now.

 

[wildtrout2]

On the May 18th 2022 Pa Class A list, I counted 11 streams listed as having wild rainbows. As noted, mostly in the western portion of the state. Considering the total number of streams in Pa, that's very few. I'm sure there are streams that have them that are not on the list, but not a lot of them either.

 

[pcray1231]

Several mentioned in this thread are not listed as rainbow. The Schuylkill County one. Spring Creek in Centre county has known wild bows, and I'm not talking near the hatcheries where the wildness is in question, but rather near the mouth of a trib that has wild bows. Neither Spring nor the trib are listed. Big Spring Creek is not listed but has a very well known wild rainbow population. The one in Potter County mentioned at least twice in this thread isn't listed. Mike mentioned one in Berks, I'm not sure if it still has them, but it did and it's not listed.

A few examples. There are a lot of streams that meet the criteria for class A rainbows but are not listed. In many cases, they are already class A for other trout species. This isn't to say wild rainbows are common, per se. We're arguing over whether there are 11 or a few dozen wild bow streams (it's the latter). Meanwhile, there are THOUSANDS with brookies and browns.

 

[Swattie87]

There’s also still a lot of streams with Brookies and Browns that aren’t listed on any of the PFBC lists. Once a quarter a bunch of them get approved and added during the PBFC quarterly meetings. Their “Meeting Minutes” documents/attachments have some pretty cool info on the survey results that lead to this.

Point being, and circling back to the Rainbows, just because there’s only 11 or 12 listed by the PFBC, that doesn’t mean there aren’t more out there. There are. In the case of Rainbows, the number not listed, or hidden behind more substantial Brookie/Brown populations, is probably pretty small. A few dozen-ish seems like a decent estimate. In the cases of Browns and/or Brookies, there are likely still hundreds, if not thousands of streams in PA that have them, that aren’t listed. Granted, many of these are tiny, but keep an eye on the Quarterly Meetings for reference. There are a ton still being added.

 

[wildtrout2]

On the May 18th 2022 Pa Class A list, I counted 11 streams listed as having wild rainbows. As noted, mostly in the western portion of the state. Considering the total number of streams in Pa, that's very few. I'm sure there are streams that have them that are not on the list, but not a lot of them either.

Also, of these streams and the one's that hold wild rainbows that are not listed, how many of them would actually hold all three wild species of trout to make a wild trout trifecta possible? That's the tough combination.
I'd imagine some of these streams have the wild rainbows and native brookies, but no wild browns, as an example.

 

[Swattie87]

Also, of these streams and the one's that hold wild rainbows that are not listed, how many of them would actually hold all three wild species of trout to make a wild trout trifecta possible? That's the tough combination.
I'd imagine some of these streams have the wild rainbows and native brookies, but no wild browns, as an example.

My guess is most of the small freestone streams that have the Bows, have Browns and Brookies too. At least some. Though, it may not be easy to get one or the other and the population may be skewed pretty heavily toward one, or two species. Not as sure on the limestone ones that have Bows though.

Of the four where I’ve done it, on two of them the Brown is the hardest one to get. On one, it’s the Brookie, on one it’s the Rainbow. Just depends. They also typically transition from more Browns to more Rainbows, to more Brookies as you work upstream on them. Though there are areas on all of them where all three species overlap.

I’ll add this, while I found the wild trifecta a bit of a novelty and chased it a bit the first few times I did it, I now fish those four streams more for the nice wild Brown Trout they contain, than the possibility of a trifecta. FWIW. Wild Rainbows IMO are just that, a fun novelty, but it wears off quick, or at least it did for me. I’d much rather fish for wild Browns or native Brookies.

 

[FarmerDave]

Ditto what Swattie said.

 

[laszlo]

Sun evening I caught wild rainbow, brown and the one that flipped off I'm sure was a brookie (maybe) on a Adams Co freestoner.

 

[Swattie87]

Sun evening I caught wild rainbow, brown and the one that flipped off I'm sure was a brookie (maybe) on a Adams Co freestoner.

I think it’s likely I know the stream, lots of private and posted water on the uppermost stretches, stocked with better access down lower?

If so, I’ve heard of it being possible on that one too. Though I didn’t recall it in my list earlier in the thread. I’ve never fished it, as the most appetizing water to a small stream guy like me isn’t accessible.

 

[troutbert]

My guess is most of the small freestone streams that have the Bows, have Browns and Brookies too. At least some. Though, it may not be easy to get one or the other and the population may be skewed pretty heavily toward one, or two species. Not as sure on the limestone ones that have Bows though.

Of the four where I’ve done it, on two of them the Brown is the hardest one to get. On one, it’s the Brookie, on one it’s the Rainbow. Just depends. They also typically transition from more Browns to more Rainbows, to more Brookies as you work upstream on them. Though there are areas on all of them where all three species overlap.

I’ll add this, while I found the wild trifecta a bit of a novelty and chased it a bit the first few times I did it, I now fish those four streams more for the nice wild Brown Trout they contain, than the possibility of a trifecta. FWIW. Wild Rainbows IMO are just that, a fun novelty, but it wears off quick, or at least it did for me. I’d much rather fish for wild Browns or native Brookies.

That's true, and the number of streams holding wild rainbows has increased because of stocking of rainbows by private fee fishing operations. They are stocking different strains of rainbows than the PFBC stocks, strains which are more viable for survival and reproduction in the wild.

Which is a bad thing, and should not be legal. In many places wild rainbow trout seriously reduce the native brook trout populations.

 

[Mike]

There’s also still a lot of streams with Brookies and Browns that aren’t listed on any of the PFBC lists. Once a quarter a bunch of them get approved and added during the PBFC quarterly meetings. Their “Meeting Minutes” documents/attachments have some pretty cool info on the survey results that lead to this.

Point being, and circling back to the Rainbows, just because there’s only 11 or 12 listed by the PFBC, that doesn’t mean there aren’t more out there. There are. In the case of Rainbows, the number not listed, or hidden behind more substantial Brookie/Brown populations, is probably pretty small. A few dozen-ish seems like a decent estimate. In the cases of Browns and/or Brookies, there are likely still hundreds, if not thousands of streams in PA that have them, that aren’t listed. Granted, many of these are tiny, but keep an eye on the Quarterly Meetings for reference. There are a ton still being added.

Unlikely that many will ever be specifically listed, as they don’t have to be to get the same water quality and wetland protections as those that are listed IF they are tribs, tribs to tribs, etc that occur within the listed stream’s basin upstream from the lower limit of the listed stream’s wild trout stream description.

I would add that while there is skill in locating those wild trout streams that are not the low hanging fruit, there is more skill in locating the marginal ones and their downstream limits (of the wild trout populations) without just randomly sampling streams or sites within streams until the sampling crew gets it right. Developing that skill set from experience results in less time ($) wasted on an individual water and more time spent finding “new” wild trout streams.

In essence, there are two skills at play on marginal waters. One is to identify the characteristics that suggest that said stream might be a wild trout stream vs those near-by that might look the same to untrained eyes. The second is to be able to identify in advance where the wild trout, if present, are most likely to nearly disappear along the study stream’s length without just randomly searching for the spot where there are just enough trout of various yr classes to barely qualify that stretch as a wild trout stream. Sometimes it takes two sampling sites to get that second part right.

 

[laszlo]

You're exactly right Swattie, I was invited to fish a club section of the upper waters

 

[boychick]

I got the wild trout trifecta once on one of the streams referenced earlier. It is a place known for wild rainbows lower down and brook trout in the headwaters. I've caught browns and brookies on Penns, but never caught a rainbow there.

 

[Swattie87]

Am upstate for a long weekend and was able to sneak an extra half day of vacation in to get up there last night. Mainly focusing on exploring new waters this trip, but with the extra day to fish and this thread fresh in my mind, I thought I’d try one of my historic streams where the trifecta is possible. Accomplished it today. The catch ratio was roughly 2:1 Brookies to Bows, with 2 Browns in total. Low clear water probably limited the Brown catch rate, but overall it fished well. Wild Rainbows do not like to be held for photos. They never sit nice.

Note: I caught several Brookies myself, but my wife caught the nicest Brookie of the day, so posting hers for the thread.

 

[wildtrout2]

Am upstate for a long weekend and was able to sneak an extra half day of vacation in to get up there last night. Mainly focusing on exploring new waters this trip, but with the extra day to fish and this thread fresh in my mind, I thought I’d try one of my historic streams where the trifecta is possible. Accomplished it today. The catch ratio was roughly 2:1 Brookies to Bows, with 2 Browns in total. Low clear water probably limited the Brown catch rate, but overall it fished well. Wild Rainbows do not like to be held for photos. They never sit nice.

Note: I caught several Brookies myself, but my wife caught the nicest Brookie of the day, so posting hers for the thread.

Very nice! Congrats to your wife for the beautiful native.