Wild trout issue revisited

[RRR]

I know what the Fish Commission says about fishing not hurting wild trout populations. However, in the last week I have been on two different wild trout streams and seen first hand that there is at least some effect. Fished the upper end of Hay Cr. last week which is one of those areas where the state stocks fish over a Class A section of stream. As I was getting ready to leave, I saw a man and woman fishing a hole near where I had parked. They left and went down stream as I approached so I figured I'd hit the hole before I left. When I waded down there, I saw a fish in it's death throws on the bottom of the stream. I waded over and it was a wild brown about 10" long. It's nice that they released it but why? Probably didn't meet their size standards for the pan. Today I fished Cedar Cr. which is not stocked in the area I was fishing. Again, as I was getting ready to leave, I saw two teenagers bait fishing. One of them caught a beautiful wild brown which he landed by dragging it up onto the bank and then back into the field about ten feet. As I watched, He got the hook out and proceeded to return it to the stream by kicking it back toward the water. After three or four kicks the fish finally hit the water with a splat. That's two that nobody will ever catch again. Think about it. These are just two incidents that I personally witnessed on just two consecutive trips. How many times a day must scenes like this take place that nobody sees. Didn't see any creel census takers around either. Go figure.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

:evil: :evil: that makes me want to puke :evil: :evil:

 

[Chaz]

Did you miss the opportunity to educate these anglers about proper c&r methods? If so shame on you not them.

 

[Wulff-Man]

I agree with Chaz, but not as harshly. It can be a touchy situation to try to tell somebody how to do something, and you don't know how they will take it. I can understand how a lot of us might not want to get involved in it. But the best thing would be to make an attempt at trying to enlighten them in the most tactful way possible. This isn't really about the creel survey and restrictions on harvesting, because even if C&R was required, they would have done it the same way. Then again, I suppose if the PFBC was a bigger supporter of C&R, maybe there would be more awareness and information that comes from them on how to do it properly.

 

[JackM]

In defense of PFBC for the past several years, the "How To Properly Catch And Release Fish" article has featured prominently in the Summary of Regs booklet. I don't recall the part about dragging it into the grass and kicking them back into the water. That technique works well with catfish, but probably a bad thing for your average trout.

 

[JJZ]

That's sad, just reading about what you witnessed hurts..... On another note, those who know how often I fish and how much I care about the resourse, are starting to wonder if I care more about fish than people.

I care about everything....especially the fish. :-D

 

[troutbert]

Chaz wrote:
Did you miss the opportunity to educate these anglers about proper c&r methods? If so shame on you not them.

I think it depends on the angler. Some of them might get something out of your advice, and if so it's good to try. But sometimes you can just sort of tell that it will fall on deaf ears. In that case I keep walking.

Someone who kicks trout down the bank may be somewhat of a dimbulb.

 

[LehighRegular]

I will actually agree with Jack M on that as well (this might be first).

I think the PFBC probably does about as much as any other fisheries agency to make people aware of how to release fish properly. Could they do more, sure they could.

However, I do believe the PFBC does not consider the impact that does occur to wild trout as RRT witnessed. I too have witnessed trout gut hooked, mortally wounded or mistreated many times. This is just as bad as creeling a fish and should be considered a factor by the PFBC. From what I have read recently, it appears that they don't in the management of wild trout fisheries.

 

[JackM]

LehighRegular wrote:
I will actually agree with Jack M on that as well (this might be first).

Lehigh, don't beat yourself up too badly. I bet if each and every member here tried real hard, they could think of at least one thing they agree with me about.

 

[Wulff-Man]

I hear what you're saying LR, and my comment on the PFBC was just a last minute aside that I added on. But as far as them considering higher levels of fishing mortality, I'm not sure what it all would mean. The only way to prevent it, other than more education of anglers, would be to prohibit fishing.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

hey me and jack have butted heads many times and i always at least see his point of view. he is one of the few here that has at least altered my point of view on something. anyways education doesnt always work. some kids are sick and cruel. i dont think those two would learn anything.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

the only other thing to do...is carry a cell phone and camera. get them on film and call the pfbc. good way to get lawbreakers. the first situation morally did something wrong but those kids were cruel. totally wrong!

 

[OhioOutdoorsman]

You know, landing a large fish while standing on a bank with a short baitcaiting rod without a net often involves a fish getting beached. When I was a kid I kicked fish back into the water in an effort to get them back in more quickly.

When I first moved to the Cleveland area seven years ago I was a dedicated spinfisherman. The third time out I went steelhead fishing I hooked into a steelhead finally. I was using a treble spinner and when I got the fish in I realized I had foul hooked-it. I ended up beaching it and then unhooking it and generally mishandle it as I returned it to water.

A flyfisherman was watching this whole thing unfold. He approched me, asked how it was going and I told him that I hadn't caught anything legitimately but didn't know what I was doing. He then asked if he could fish the hole I was fishing. I said sure.....and watched him land one legitimately. I landed the fish for him in my net. He then explained how my knotted nylon net was rough on fish and how to properly release a fish. He then expained I might have better luck fishing a salmon egg on a dead drifted weighted line.

It was at that point I decided I wanted to flyfish.........

 

[Mike]

RRR:

Stating that the PFBC stocks trout in the Class A section of Hay Creek is not something that I can let pass without comment, especially since I am the one who designated the section limits on the stream following a biological survey. The official upstream stocking limit is the Rt 82 bridge nearest to Geigertown. That is also the downstream limit of the Class A section, although it is unlikely (due to habitat in the meadow above the bridge) that the stream is actually Class A at that specific point. From a practical standpoint in the sectioning strategy, however, Rt. 82 is designated as the lower Class A section limit since one of the Class A qualifying sites was close to Rt. 82 (but upstream from Rt 82). My limited experience (I rarely attend stockings but had happened upon this particular stocking just as the bridge area was being stocked) has been that the WCO has followed instructions and used that bridge as the upper stocking point. Is there reliable info. to the contrary?

 

[tomgamber]

JackM wrote:

LehighRegular wrote:
I will actually agree with Jack M on that as well (this might be first).

Lehigh, don't beat yourself up too badly. I bet if each and every member here tried real hard, they could think of at least one thing they agree with me about.

Jack, I agree that it is ok to keep a cigarette, in your mouth, not only lit but continually smoked even while casting to and reeling in a fish.

 

[RRR]

Mike, I thought that the Class A water extended to where the upper bridge is closed. From that point up to where Rock Hill Rd. ( I don't think that's the right name for it but it's Rock something) crosses the stream is where I catch alot of wild fish. Once I get above that point I can't get a bite. What about Willow Cr? The Fish Comm. map on the internet for Berks Co. shows that as being Class A water all the way to 222. I fished there yesterday and saw Approved Trout Water signs a mile or two above 222. And Chaz, I usually do talk to people when I see situations like that but I could tell by looking at those two kids that it would probably only result in a confrontation and I didn't feel like having to kick them down the bank and into the stream. :lol:

 

[Bamboozle]

RRR:

The PFBC maps are VERY inaccurate at times. I never use them for that reason.

A much more dependable method is to use a combination of the Class A list and the Stocking list to determine section lengths. While I have my issues with: ".234km upstream from the old dam" being used as a description; once you do a little research you can usually figure out where they are talking about.

BTW - the Class A section description for the upper limit of Willow Creek is 375 meters upstream of the Willow Creek Road Bridge which is well short of 222.

 

[Chaz]

All the limits on stocking are out the window if a local Co-op Hatchery is stocking a particular creek.

 

[thedude1534]

This might be touchy with some people, and I hate to perpetuate the stereotype of flyfishers being elitist, but........

I just finished a weekend trip with me, the lone flyfisherman, and 5 spinner fisherman. I got a chance to watch some of these guys fishing, and I would be surprised if more than half of the fish they released survived. It wasn't so much the handling of the fish, they took them in nets and had wet hands, no laying on the ground, etc. However, almost all of the ones they cought had half inhaled a trebble hook lure, which resulted in a bloody detachment. Also, taking these hooks out took anywhere form 1 to 3 minutes, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the fish ended up belly up.

Personally I don't understand why you need three hooks on a lure, but that aside, does anyone know if there is a sharp contrast in the mortality rates between fly-fishing only, and all tackle wild trout areas? This is also assuming that those areas are catch and release, I guess you couldn't really apply this to a harvested section....

 

[FarmerDave]

JackM wrote:

Lehigh, don't beat yourself up too badly. I bet if each and every member here tried real hard, they could think of at least one thing they agree with me about.

I disagree. :-D