Why so big on distance?

[OldLefty]

Some interesting comments here. I'll add a couple more.

Someone said something about the advantage of casting tight loops on small streams adding this relates to overlining a rod, etc. My take is that, while it may be that some rods in combination with some lines may allow for a bit easier loop control, it is the caster who controls the loop size.

I'm one who does not overline a rod, rather I'm known for underlining a rod. For example, I fish a 2 wt. line on a 4 wt. rod for a lot of my fishing once water levels drop. Trouble casting short distances with adequately tight loops? Not really. This is where good casting mechanics comes into play. And, I'm certainly not the greatest caster around.

Why cast for distance? A while back, when I was still an Orvis endorsed guide, I was at a rendezvous and someone made a comment as I was executing a long cast. The comment was to be interpreted as meaning long casts are "show-off" casts. I then explained that, for me, working on distance is working on casting efficiency. The longer the cast (without beating myself to death) the more efficient the caster must be. The more efficient the cast the easier the cast, both in execution and in accuracy potential.

It is true that, when I teach fly fishing, I teach positioning yourself as close to the fish as possible without spooking them. If an angler can do that and cast efficiently to the fish the potential for success increases. Add to this the ability to present a fly at a bit longer distance and an angler can reach more fish without relocating. I believe this results in the angler being more efficient at his game.

 

[pcray1231]

My take is that, while it may be that some rods in combination with some lines may allow for a bit easier loop control, it is the caster who controls the loop size.

True, but it quite often has to be done without a backcast. If it's open in front but not behind, I do a lot of "snap casts" in these situations. I don't know what you call it, but basically aerializing a lot of line in front of you and then a quick, overpowered forward stroke. Almost like a "soft" backcast and then a strong forward cast before the line has a chance to get behind you. Technically way too early, but you may have little choice to do it "right".

I also do a lot of water hauls. Facing upstream, let the line in the current behind you, then just a forward snap using the water tension. Similar to a roll cast, which also gets used, but in many situations the need to get line in front of you before the money cast results in spooked fish by the time the money cast comes.

And of course a lot of bow and arrow casts, which throws a FAR tighter loop than I could ever dream of otherwise, accurately to boot. And typically you can throw about 2 rod lengths of fly line + leader, plus with the rod pointed at the fish, you have the rod length too. So you can approach 30 ft this way, with pinpoint accuracy, and super tight loops, with zero backcast. You can also basically do it while laying down, lifting it over your head, facing the wrong direction, etc. The downfall is that it takes a while to set up. Making all those loops in your hand to set up 1 cast. With this type of fishing, you're pretty much aiming for 1 good single cast per "spot" anyway. This is for those "I'm only gonna get 1 shot at this, I wanna make it count" moments. So reaching more fish without relocating is not really a factor.

But, that's in defense of my overlined broomstick comments, which is really a specialized situation that many anglers don't do much of. You have to get inventive. Stiff rods and heavy lines seem to do weird stuff better, to me, anyway, I don't claim to have perfect technique. I do other types of fishing too, and everything you said makes perfect sense there, where it's more traditional "casting". And no, I don't overline in those situations. On big water, I will occasionally underline. For the same reasons that overlining helps at short distances, underlining helps at long distances.

And, I'm certainly not the greatest caster around.

I beg to differ!!!!!

 

[Chaz]

Testosterone?
Joking aside, there are times when you will be fishing and want to hit the top of the pool from distance. Also there are times when even in a small stream you'll need the extra oomph to bring a large fish in, whether or not the feel of casting a rod for distance give you any idea of how the rod retrieves the fish I don't know. But it ought to tell you something.
I fish some big waters and use longer rods to get distance, for this most of the time my 9 ft. 4 wt will perform as needed and I won't have to move a lot. The thing is you don't always need it, but when you do, it's because you really need it to catch a fish and land a fish.

 

[McSneek]

On moving water I look at it like the law of diminishing returns. Yes, that extra distance is great to reach a fish without spooking it or because you just can't wade close but the more distance between you and the fish, the more likely you're going to be faced with increased drag or perhaps other obstacles. Throw an entire line on many stretches of the Yough for instance and you'll have the world's biggest "C" in your line in seconds.

I agree with what OL said about casting distance = efficiency. That's perhaps the best reason to be able to cast far - it's indicative that your mechanics are good. There's also a beauty to fly casting that's far more obvious when there is a lot of line involved.

Admittedly my mechanics aren't good but I'm good enough to enjoy fishing and have some success. If I just can't reach a fish I'll go looking for another one.

 

[krayfish2]

This is a family friendly forum. Please refrain from the use of 'the c'. LOL

 

[pabrookie94]

I see a lot of good replies here. I do however think my question was either poorly worded or misinterpreted to a degree. I fully understand why one would want to cast for distance to improve mechanics, reach a long ball of a fish, or while fishing salt/Stillwater etc. What I was more referring to was the why the market is pushing so hard from this angle as krayfish stated with a tip flex Helios 2 in 3 weight. I have had the need to cast 70' to a brown trout in order to avoid spooking him during a hatch and have fished still waters where it is advantageous to cast great distances.

I see better now that there are certainly more instances than I thought where distance would be a positive factor on bigger waters (not something I fish with regularity). However, I guess I am just curious as to why I see a lot more I can throw it this far rather than I can throw it this accurately. I personally would rather throw 60' accurately than 90' all over the place. IMO

Thank you for all the replies! I do have a better grasp as to how many instances there actually are for throwing that line as far as you can get it.

 

[krayfish2]

For some reason, I think there's an exact opposite thread going on some saltwater forum......

"What's the deal with companies making all these slow action fiberglass rods? Who in the hell even rollcasts anymore?".

LMAO

 

[geebee]

Simply because distance is useful on long pools or big rivers.

On the Delaware, I was casting the entire line on a fast action 3wt when I was upstream nymphing a foam line, using a double haul.

I could also use the same rod for float tubing panfish or swinging wets for landlocked salmon if I wished - as they tend to run small, shad too perhaps.

However, the majority of trout fishers don't need distance and if anything need a softer action to handle delicate tippets and quieter presentations - me included but there are very few around, I know as I've been looking for a reasonably priced (under $200) soft medium action since the summer, and all I have found is glass or high cost rods !

 

[phiendWMD]

Last year I fishing the middle/lower Delaware more than anywhere else. I wade and there are so many times I can't move into a place I would like because of deep water or fast current. Being able to cast further in these cases really opens a lot of extra water. It's also more efficient. The less time I spend moving into new positions the more time I spend casting/with my line in the water. I often find myself going backwards to go forward, if that makes sense. Like moving toward the bank, going upstream, then wading deeper again. Moving in U shaped patterns like that instead of in a straight line because of obstacles is tiring and a waste of time. So the longer I can cast the further I can move upstream on each pass.

All in all though, I'm not obsessed with distance really. The more I fish and practice the longer my casts get. I'm more interested in catching fish than contest tricks.

 

[tomitrout]

However, I guess I am just curious as to why I see a lot more I can throw it this far rather than I can throw it this accurately. I personally would rather throw 60' accurately than 90' all over the place. IMO

Well, if you can throw 90', there's a good chance you already do cast accurately at 60'. And if you're throwing that 90' with any consistency, you're probably also accurate enough at that distance and not throwing 'all over the place.' I also like the point made about not having to move around as much as you're able to effectively cast further, fewer steps taken=fewer chances to spook.

Now, when you get to the marketing of things (more to the point of the OP?)....it's awfully hard to sell the latest and greatest based on where you already catch 98% of your fish, your current gear obviously works. You don't need a new rod, you don't need a new line for that.

But what about that 2% fish? They're trying to sell you a new rod, or a new zippy line, so you can reach that dreamt of lunker you know lies just beyond that seam, up against that undercut bank that you just. can't. quite. reach. Your 2% dream fish...well, here's your magic potion kid, this rod cast's itself, easily adds that 10', hell, 20'! you needed to catch that trout. They're selling you your dream of catching that fish that you just can't reach with your current rig. Here's your silver bullet. Just wait 'til you see what we have next year.

And the majority of the fly fishing consumer base must buy into it, or we'd see a different marketing strategy and product line. Our egos are fragile when we're learning something new like flyfishing and often don't like to be told that what you really need to do is call up someone like Old Lefty and have him work with you on your casting.....ie: you're not as good as you think you are and could really use a lesson or two, we all could.

Or, you can go buy the latest bling and show it off to your friends and still not be able to cast for a damn. And along the way continue to feed the corporate bottom line of Orvis-Sage-Loomis-StCroix-TFO-Cabelas-BassPro-etc,etc,etc. Though there have been some recent ads pushing the slower pace as 'the bigs' begin to come back around to what's old is new again with refreshed glass and IM6 offerings....sellsellsellbuybuybuy.

 

[outsider]

OldLefty wrote:

"Someone said something about the advantage of casting tight loops on small streams adding this relates to overlining a rod, etc. My take is that, while it may be that some rods in combination with some lines may allow for a bit easier loop control, it is the caster who controls the loop size.

I'm one who does not overline a rod, rather I'm known for underlining a rod. For example, I fish a 2 wt. line on a 4 wt. rod for a lot of my fishing once water levels drop. Trouble casting short distances with adequately tight loops? Not really. This is where good casting mechanics comes into play. And, I'm certainly not the greatest caster around."

+1 on these comments.

 

[sandfly]

its just plain fun

 

[bikerfish]

I love seeing Lefty Kreh casting an entire fly line with just the tip section of the rod. Kinda debunks a lot of myths.

 

[pabrookie94]

bikerfish wrote:
I love seeing Lefty Kreh casting an entire fly line with just the tip section of the rod. Kinda debunks a lot of myths.

Very neat to watch indeed.

I will say one final time that I learned multiple niches for which distance casting is useful and am sorry for anyone who I offended with this question. I do enjoy a good letting a good loop unfold over a good distance I just never saw how important it was to this many peoples fishing. Thank you for the responses everyone I learned a lot about the topic in question.

 

[bikerfish]

I suck at distance casting, not my thing. But I do it if I have to.

 

[krayfish2]

Hey, fly rod marketing is like marketing for golf clubs. Over the last 20 years, every year the newest driver will give you "15-20 additional yards". Based on their math... I drive it 260 yards.....I then add in the additional 200+ yards I've gained by buying their drivers every year and come up with drives of nearly 500 yards.

At 28, I drove the ball 275 and now at 49, I drive it 250-260. So the hype is just that......hype and that's also why my drivers are 5-10 years old.

 

[poopdeck]

Putt for dough drive for show. Correlation?
Fly shop cred?
It keeps us young at heart. Best response I read was because its just plain fun.

 

[FiveWeight]

sandfly wrote:
its just plain fun

You got it. Bada Bing Bada Boom!

 

[afishinado]

krayfish2 wrote:
Hey, fly rod marketing is like marketing for golf clubs. Over the last 20 years, every year the newest driver will give you "15-20 additional yards". Based on their math... I drive it 260 yards.....I then add in the additional 200+ yards I've gained by buying their drivers every year and come up with drives of nearly 500 yards.

At 28, I drove the ball 275 and now at 49, I drive it 250-260. So the hype is just that......hype and that's also why my drivers are 5-10 years old.

....sounds like you need a new driver to get you back to 275!

BombTech Grenade Driver

 

[pcray1231]

I then add in the additional 200+ yards I've gained by buying their drivers every year and come up with drives of nearly 500 yards.

That's kind of like our projects at work. Each has a calculation ahead of time on how much money it'll save. And after completion, based on the results, the final report indicates how much money it will actually save.

The cost to make many products, apparently, should be in negative numbers by now!

Of course, my favorite instances are where there's a problem, someone has an idea how to fix it, and some engineer gets the task. They do so, and report that they're saving X% of the cost. Fast forward 5 years, and, as it turns out, that fix caused some other problem. Some engineer gets the task. Undo's what the 1st engineer did and makes it how it used to be. And reports that they're saving X% of the cost!