Why doesn't PA Fish Commission stock marginal streams in the late fall?

[PaScoGi]

For purposes of this thread, I am not referring to the special regulations sections that a few counties get stocked. I am talking about what I call a "marginal" stream, meaning it does not contain wild trout and it gets too warm for trout by late May/early June. Yet these streams still get stocked in the late winter early spring. But really, we only get 2 months max to enjoy fishing for trout in these streams.

Why? Why does the PA Fish Commission spend money on stocking a stream that the trout will only survive for 2 months max?

I was fishing a marginal stream yesterday and the water temp was 40 degrees. There was plenty of public access, lots of boulders, woody debris, curves in the stream, channels, islands, etc. All the things that make a nice stream to fish. It would have been great to have that stream stocked on December 1st instead of March 1st. If it was stocked early December, make it catch and release only up to opening day, it would give everyone who likes to fish in the winter 4 entire months to fish it, along with 2 additional months in the spring until it gets too warm. So the stocking would yield 6 months of fishing instead of 2 months.

I am sure I am missing some key points. As in, I am sure if these marginal streams were stocked in December there would be poachers who wouldn't catch and release anyway so that may be why. But it is just frustrating that Pennsylvania has all of these streams that are dead for trout by late May yet we are missing months of possible fishing if the PA Fish Commission would stock when it starts getting cold instead of stocking right before it starts getting warm.

Again, I am only talking about streams with no wild trout, no spawning, no redds etc. But if you look at the streams in Pennsylvania and the stocking list, there are just as many marginal streams if not more than wild trout streams. It just would be nice to have trout in these streams during the winter through the spring. It would help spread out angling pressure too. This time of year, the delayed harvest and wild trout streams get pounded by anglers because they are the only places with trout. Right now water temps in every stream, whether it is wild or marginal, are low enough to hold trout for many months. If there were more streams, anglers would be able to spread out and it would help the wild trout possibly not get hit as hard.

Let me know if anyone agrees or if I am totally off, which is possible. There may be things that I am forgetting.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I would be shocked if any stream in Pa got pounded in the last 10 days or so, including Spring Creek🤪

I would guess it mostly would have to do with diminishing return on the investment to raise and stock those fish. I would venture outsode of a select few examples, many of the fall stocked streams see relatively little angling use Dec to Feb.

 

[PennKev]

Like, ya know.... I just don't care about stocked trout that much.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Money.

They aren't going to sell more licenses by doing widespread stockings in the fall, so it isn't economically viable to do so.

 

[joebamboo]

Like, ya know.... I just don't care about stocked trout that much.

Then why to you fish Neshannock Creek?🙄

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Less fish to stock over wild trout populations, dude.

 

[troutbert]

Why doesn't PA Fish Commission stock marginal streams in the late fall?​

Because the great majority of those trout would die over winter.

The survival of hatchery trout over winter in freestone streams is extremely low.

Their survival in limestone streams is higher, but most of those are wild trout streams.

 

[Nocktavius]

Why doesn't PA Fish Commission stock marginal streams in the late fall?​

ftfy

 

[jifigz]

I was fishing a marginal stream yesterday and the water temp was 40 degrees.

What species of fish were you targeting?

 

[Bamboozle]

I have no inside knowledge, but the logical place to put ADDITIONAL stocked fish in the Extended Season is in an existing catch & release (C&R) section versus a Stocked Trout Waters (STW) section for a couple of reasons.

First off, creating ANOTHER layer or regulations on a particular STW section so it is C&R for three months out of the year would be an enforcement nightmare. In addition, a lack of angler utilization versus cost is another thing that comes immediately to mind.

FWIW - I don't where this "marginal" stream is located, but in my neck of the woods, all of the marginal streams are 80 - 90% frozen over and close to unfishable.

If I had flowing open water @ 40 degrees in my neighborhood I'd be targeting sunfish, suckers and other warmwater fish with nymphs or even bait, enjoying myself and worry about trout in the spring.

 

[jifigz]

First off, creating ANOTHER layer or regulations on a particular STW section so it is C&R for three months out of the year would be an enforcement nightmare.

Why would it have to be C&R? Why couldn't it just be open under regular harvest limitations?

I know that is what the OP said, but it makes more sense just to have those waters open and available to harvest those fish directly after they are stocked.

 

[Bamboozle]

Why would it have to be C&R? Why couldn't it just be open under regular harvest limitations?

I know that is what the OP said, but it makes more sense just to have those waters open and available to harvest those fish directly after they are stocked.

It doesn't have to be but I'm only trying to keep to the OP's thinking...

In keeping with those desires of something OTHER than just a regular old garden variety fall stocking; allowing harvest from a December 1 stocking commencement means other layers of additional regulations for that specific stream section because ATW's are closed to fishing (in 2025) on February 16.

So LEGALLY you could only fish over these newly introduced stockers from Dec 1 (the OP's date of stocking) until Feb 16...

UNLESS they created a couple of special regulations for that particular STW section to either make it C&R from Dec 31 (the normal end of the 1st Extended Season), through the 2nd Extended Season (Jan 1 - Feb 16 in 2005) until Opening Day.

My head hurts just thinking about the PFBC trying to pull that off... 😱

While I was waiting for that regulation cluster "F," I'd be fishing a regular C&R Special Regulation section or fishing for bluegills. 😉

 

[PennKev]

Then why to you fish Neshannock Creek?🙄

I've lived in the area my entire life, I grew up fishing it and know it like the back of my hand. When other people ask legitimate questions about the creek, I try to answer them honestly and be helpful. I haven't fished it and intentionally targeted trout there is several years, but that doesn't mean I can't be helpful to those who want to do so. Just because I dont give two sh!ts about stocked trout doesn't mean I am not going to help someone who wants to fish a well known stocked stream and is looking for info.

Furthermore, I actually do still fish Neshannock quite a bit... ...but not for stocked trout. Even furthermore, my dismissive attitude towards stocked fish and the stocking program should not be construed as me never fishing any stocked water, theres just too much of it to totally avoid, especially in my part of the state.

If anything, my appreciation for my local waters was hindered by them being stocked. Stocking distracted me from other naturally occurring fishing opportunities that I did not give a second thought to until I grew to dislike stocked fish, the stocking program, and the entire culture surrounding stocking in PA.

I loved fishing before I loved trout fishing and fly fishing. I'd still be fishing with or without stocked fish. I'd still be fishing Neshannock.

Got it?

 

[joebamboo]

I've lived in the area my entire life, I grew up fishing it and know it like the back of my hand. When other people ask legitimate questions about the creek, I try to answer them honestly and be helpful. I haven't fished it and intentionally targeted trout there is several years, but that doesn't mean I can't be helpful to those who want to do so. Just because I dont give two sh!ts about stocked trout doesn't mean I am not going to help someone who wants to fish a well known stocked stream and is looking for info.

Furthermore, I actually do still fish Neshannock quite a bit... ...but not for stocked trout. Even furthermore, my dismissive attitude towards stocked fish and the stocking program should not be construed as me never fishing any stocked water, theres just too much of it to totally avoid, especially in my part of the state.

If anything, my appreciation for my local waters was hindered by them being stocked. Stocking distracted me from other naturally occurring fishing opportunities that I did not give a second thought to until I grew to dislike stocked fish, the stocking program, and the entire culture surrounding stocking in PA.

I loved fishing before I loved trout fishing and fly fishing. I'd still be fishing with or without stocked fish. I'd still be fishing Neshannock.

Got it?

PennKev, my post was totally meant for humor. It was never my intention to mean anything other than that! Sorry you took it otherwise. I grew up in New Castle and fished the creek for many years, Still hit if occasionally when I am visiting back home.

 

[PennKev]

PennKev, my post was totally meant for humor. It was never my intention to mean anything other than that! Sorry you took it otherwise. I grew up in New Castle and fished the creek for many years, Still hit if occasionally when I am visiting back home.

OK. No worries. I misunderstood the intent of your post.

 

[Forestfishin]

I’d think it doesn’t happen due to finances and probably not seen as the best use of pfbc resources but that’s an opinion from someone that doesn’t have a clue.

I prefer fishing for native and wild fish but always enjoyed fishing the fall stockings. There used to be more streams and sections stocked than there are now. Indian Creek DH in Westmoreland was one close to home that stopped. There were a few streams/sections in Forest and Venango near my camp that were removed from fall stocking as well. One in Forest wasn’t a special regulation water and that’s the one I miss the most because it is such a scenic stream.

 

[Bonzoso]

OK. No worries. I misunderstood the intent of your post.

Yo PennKev, I kinda feel that you were asking for JoeBamboos humorous reply. One thing I often see on these threads is that some folks always think they must reply to a post, even if it has nothing to do with the OP's question. Your original reply sounded very snide and had no bearing on the question at hand. Please think before you type.

 

[tomgamber]

And here comes february...

 

[Dave_W]

Why doesn't PA Fish Commission stock marginal streams in the late fall?​

Because the great majority of those trout would die over winter.

The survival of hatchery trout over winter in freestone streams is extremely low.

Their survival in limestone streams is higher, but most of those are wild trout streams.

This ^

 

[Dave_W]

And I doubt the PFBC feels that enough folks want to trout fish in the fall/winter to make stockings worthwhile. Fall stocked fish would not be utilized (i.e. caught & harvested) and just go to waste.