Which Lines to Buy?

[ponner1us]

I need to pick up 2 new lines, a 3 weight and a 5 weight, I see Rio Avid Trout on sale for $34.95, and I see Allen ATS for $39.99? Which do I go for? Or is there something better for around same price or less?

 

[slumdumb]

Rio over Allen... at any price

 

[ryguyfi]

slumdumb wrote:
Rio over Allen... at any price

so quick to judge...

Would you buy a relabled RIO line sold through another company's name for $20 less than the same line through RIO?




What are you fishing for ponner? Typical trout set ups? Looking for WF?

 

[ponner1us]

Hi Risen, typical trout setups, either wf or dt... Maybe I should check out your lines?

 

[ryguyfi]

You can, people love our lines. Allens ATS are basically Cortland lines from what I can tell. Very good quality lines as well.

 

[krayfish]

I'd go DT on the 3 weight and WF on the 5. I think Allen and Bass Pro lines are made by Cortland. Cabelas line is made by SA. Fished Cortland line for over 20 yrs. Switched to Rio and never looked back.

 

[slumdumb]

i'm not one for buying cheap imported junk fly line ... where the only technical feature is the color

Alibaba.com is not the place to buy fly lines

I prefer to buy quality products that perform to an expected level

and "basically [a] Cortland" line... SCREAMS knock off sub par
why spend $25/$20 for a knock off when you can get a real Cortland 333 for $30
which is still a bottom tier line


Go to a shop
cast some lines
find out the differences between $30/$50/$80 lines and then make the choice of what you want to invest

RIO
SA
Airflo
all respectable line companies that offer some affordable lines

 

[krayfish]

Well said. Based on past experiences on here, the price seems to be the determining factor for purchases. In my own personal experiences with ff-ing equipment, you get what you pay for. All of my lines are Rio gold, Rio lt or SA sharkskin. I refuse to skimp on gear. I may not be able to afford the best of the best but will spend the most I have in the budget for tackle. I don't do it for the label attached. Why bother spending $499 on a driver and then play with range balls? Get good gear and treat it well. It will last and almost never let you down.


Just went to Alibaba.com and it's site for small business e-commerce. LMAO

 

[ryguyfi]

So if I bought lines direct from RIO's manufacturer, put my own company name on them and charged $20 less for them, then you still wouldn't buy them? (directed towards slumdumb aka Ramcatt)

 

[slumdumb]

So if I bought lines direct from RIO's manufacturer, put my own company name on them and charged $20 less for them, then you still wouldn't buy them?

I would say you are full of Sh*t

Rio lines are made in their factory in ID by R&D'd and QA'ed by people who fish.... not some $5 line sourced by alibaba.com from some Asian factory produced by people who have no clue about fly fishing

 

[krayfish]

I wasn't asked but will answer.... Probably not because I'd believe the lines were "seconds" or contained subtle manufacturing defects.

 

[DJBerg]

ponner, one huge factor to think about is line weight, as you are thinking about the rio avid trout, that is rio's no additives version of the rio grand, it is made one line size up. so the line may load the rod properly at 30' if the rod is a newer "fast" rod but if you have a slow action rod you may very well over line your rod. i cannot speak for the allen lines though, never fished one. heck if i were you i'd check ebay for new old stock i picked up a rio gold 7wt for $50.

so my question to you is what rods are you trying to line? and what are their actions and do you want to change the rod or have it cast the same? also so we can have a base on what you are looking for what lines are on there now?

also

Rio lines are made in their factory in ID by R&D'd and QA'ed by people who fish.... not some $5 line sourced by alibaba.com from some Asian factory produced by people who have no clue about fly fishing

what is there to stop any company from taking another companies line, a long measuring tape and a micrometer and simply reproducing that same taper under their name? most fly lines are pvc based then "super secret" additives for slickness and durometer. i believe the only line company out there that does not use pvc is airflo and they use polyurethane.

 

[slumdumb]

DJBerg wrote:

what is there to stop any company from taking another companies line, a long measuring tape and a micrometer and simply reproducing that same taper under their name?

Well... thats call stealing and then selling a sub-par knock off
at that point you are buy tapered weedwacker line


another reason to say away from alibaba.com

 

[DJBerg]

Well... thats call stealing and then selling a sub-par knock off at that point you are buy tapered weedwacker line

we are talking about corporations right? i thought that was just standard american business lol

 

[ryguyfi]

That computer you're typing on is most likely reverse engineered from many other companies ideas. So you should probably throw that stolen technology in the garbage as well.

 

[PhilC]

Design is easy to copy but material not so much. In my years in manufacturing I learned more than I should have about plastics especially PVC. There can be a high degree of variation from vendor to vendor and also lot to lot if the vendor goes the cheap route.
There some tweakage that can be done to get plastics within quality specs but its limited to "shape" (ID/OD and/or taper) the other physical properties such as tensile strength etc are not easily replicated. Also quality testing on non-shape properties is destructive therefore it it done on a "1 of n" basis and the chances you get a random bad one is higher

 

[jabink84]

You might be able to get rio branded line and sell it for 20 dollars cheaper, but i would still buy the rio. The taper might be the same between the two but the technology will be in the rio. Like someone said earlier, the rio is probably second hand or line with less technology than the real rio branded stuff. Rio mainstream and rio avid have the same tapers, with that being said, there is a big difference between the two......for example agent X and many other added technologies that go into the lines.


To the original poster, rio avid is a great fly line if you dont care to spend 75 or so for higher end stuff.

 

[wsender]

ryguyfi wrote:
That computer you're typing on is most likely reverse engineered from many other companies ideas. So you should probably throw that stolen technology in the garbage as well.

First of all, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not CE, so don't even pretend that you're not.

Second, are you admitting that your lines are reversed engineered and might be violating proprietary patented material? Oh but you bought them from Rio, right....

Third, and this is an honest question that I hope gets answered, is why? Why don't you just own up to it? "Yes my lines are sourced from manufactures over seas. They're probably not as high as quality as some other more expensive lines, but bang for you buck, they're the best," or whatever else you want to say. It seems like, in the depths of your soul, you know what you're doing is wrong, which it may or may not be. You feel it is wrong though. So you cover it up. If that's the case, why don't you develop a line? Take the time, energy, and resources to take a project from concept to market. It's hard, really hard. But if hard work scares you, just be comfortable being a re-seller and realize your place.

 

[ryguyfi]

I have owned up to it in other posts. I don't think it's wrong and I've shared the vision of the company as well. Yes it's outsourced, yes I don't have a hand in the products right now, but that's not the overall plan. I'll probably always have some products made overseas but do have plans to make a handful of products here in the states. I've been in contact with some line manufacturers in the US, as well as making some connections to machine a reel here in PA, but have to start somewhere with the limited capital I have to start things up. I'm not sure exactly how far the company will grow, but I'm sure I'll make some changes as time goes on. All I know is that the company is successful in less than a year of being opened and others don't think so poorly of our company structure.

The big issue I have with most people who oppose what I do is that there is a negativity of everything not made in the US in the fly fishing industry in their minds. Do they think this in every aspect of their life, or just this hobby? I'm sure the cars they drive, the clothes they wear, the cell phone in their pocket and many other items are made overseas, but it's only the fly fishing market that gets knocked for outsourcing. I understand I'm not the one designing and doing the R&D on it now, but that's just what's going on right now. I can't please everyone and don't plan on doing so. I'll please those who enjoy my products and do my best to make sure they hold up to my standard and if not take care of any issues.




p.s. to ponner and the rest of the board. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[wsender]

slumdumb wrote:

So if I bought lines direct from RIO's manufacturer, put my own company name on them and charged $20 less for them, then you still wouldn't buy them?

I would say you are full of Sh*t

Rio lines are made in their factory in ID by R&D'd and QA'ed by people who fish.... not some $5 line sourced by alibaba.com from some Asian factory produced by people who have no clue about fly fishing

So this reply, sparked my interest and I emailed Rio this morning and this is the reply I've gotten back from them:

Thanks for your kind note and your inquiry. We do appreciate it.

As do many companies in America and frankly throughout the world, we have imitators who are trying to piggyback on the RIO brand. I do not know for sure what sites you are seeing, but the several I am aware of all emanate from a manufacturer who is based in Singapore and who then sells to a distributor in China. It has been this entity that has been the most visible in terms offering RIO like products that aren't made by RIO.

We are in the process of taking all the usual steps to obstruct or stop this activity, but as usual the legal wheedling is laborious and not particularly met with enthusiasm by the Chinese authorities. We have also thoroughly analyzed most of the lines they are producing and while we know they have ripped off our tapers almost exactly, there is nothing in the chemical makeup of their lines that comes close to what we are producing in terms of overall performance and durability.

I hope this helps you with your question. Again, thanks for your vote of support.

All the best,

[name redacted]

I thought I'd put this out in the public so people get this point of view too.

So where exactly are you buying your lines from then?