When Did You Realize You Weren't a Beginner Anymore?

[tomitrout]

Here's a question: Is someone who has fly fished for 10 years and averages 2 outings per year averaging 3 hours per outing any more or less a beginner than someone who is in their first year of fly fishing and has already logged 20 outings averaging 4.5 hours per outing? Beware, this is a loaded question...

If a train leaves New York traveling at an avg speed of 64mph and a train leaves Chicago traveling at an avg speed of 43mph, which train gets to West Yellowstone first?

 

[dryflyguy]

OldLefty wrote:
Two points. First, no one has defined a beginner; therefore, we have no criteria to use to determine whether we have moved on from what may be defined as a beginner. How can we judge when we have nothing by which to judge??

No, I'm not saying this as a criticism, just making light of the question. After all, I can only hope I've moved beyond the "beginner" rating ;-)

Let's look at it this way. Fly fishers (who's primary focus is trout) go through 5 stages; 1) want to catch a trout: 2) want to catch as many trout as possible: 3) want to catch big trout: 4) want to catch most challenging trout: 5) just want to get out and fish for trout!!

I've been at #5 for some time now...

Here's a question: Is someone who has fly fished for 10 years and averages 2 outings per year averaging 3 hours per outing any more or less a beginner than someone who is in their first year of fly fishing and has already logged 20 outings averaging 4.5 hours per outing? Beware, this is a loaded question...

I'm between stage 3 and 4 right now.
However - after recently turning 60 - I can see me moving on to stage 5 pretty soon!

As for how do you define a beginner:

Again - for me, there was definitely a big turning point in my 3rd season of flyfishing, after I had learned how to tie. I was out hammering fish on my own creations. And getting quite a few compliments on my patterns from other anglers. I really got the feeling then that I could tie a fly to match any hatch out there - and catch fish on it.
This happened 30 years ago now. But I really remember it well - like it just happened yesterday

 

[bigslackwater]

Here's a question: Is someone who has fly fished for 10 years and averages 2 outings per year averaging 3 hours per outing any more or less a beginner than someone who is in their first year of fly fishing and has already logged 20 outings averaging 4.5 hours per outing? Beware, this is a loaded question...

I think a person can rapidly speed up their skill in a short amount of time but there are some aspects that will be lacking. The first year I got obsessed with fly fishing I was fishing a lot. But a lot of those days were not utilized to their full potential. For example, fishing a dry fly all day long when their were no risers and no feeding on the surface. A beginner most definitely learns a lesson on days like that but sometimes it takes 5 or 6 outings to realize. Stubbornness and lack of experience account for many not so great fishing days. I would also fish some very non-productive waters at the wrong time of year and keep going back expecting better results that never happened. A lot of what I learned about fly fishing doesn't happen on the stream. Learning to tie flies and reading as much about fly fishing as you can takes a lot of time too. I read a lot the first year as well, but some of that reading went over my head because I hadn't experienced it yet or been in the scenerios described in text to understand what I was doing (right or wrong).
On the flip side the guy that fishes only twice a year is not really gaining a lot of experience. So I see what you are getting at...years of experience really doesn't mean much. Many will taper of and coast once their reach a certain level.

 

[Beorn]

When I caught wild trout.

 

[gfen]

When Did You Realize You Weren't a Beginner Anymore?

When "catching fish" became the norm over "not catching fish."

 

[pcray1231]

Let's look at it this way. Fly fishers (who's primary focus is trout) go through 5 stages; 1) want to catch a trout: 2) want to catch as many trout as possible: 3) want to catch big trout: 4) want to catch most challenging trout: 5) just want to get out and fish for trout!!

I have never believed in this.

For #1, well, using the word "a" implies first, so yeah, everyone obviously goes through that one and then leaves it in the rearview mirror. Though sometimes it rears its ugly head years later, if you haven't fished in a while, and when you finally get out things are tough. You'd pay good money for a little action!

But I proceeded to #2, #3, #4, and #5 simultaneously and immediately after completing #1 for the first time, and I'm still stuck on all 4, lol.

Maybe it's because I spent a long time as a spin fisher prior to picking up a fly rod, and had proceeded through the steps as a child/early teen? i.e. when I first picked up a fly rod, I was already an experienced trout fishermen, just using a new method.

But today, there are certainly different kind of trips, and I find all of them enjoyable. All trips are successful, because you got out, and I'm very happy to be fishing even if I don't accomplish any other goals. But on a brookie trip I'm looking for numbers, scenery, and hopefully some respectable sized fish (relatively speaking). On a Penns Creek trip I'm looking to catch difficult fish, and hopefully a few bigger ones. I'm not usually a trophy hunter, at the exclusion of catching, but things change if I'm tossing streamers in chocolate milk, or if I get out on a night outing.

 

[pcray1231]

Here's a question: Is someone who has fly fished for 10 years and averages 2 outings per year averaging 3 hours per outing any more or less a beginner than someone who is in their first year of fly fishing and has already logged 20 outings averaging 4.5 hours per outing? Beware, this is a loaded question...

The simple answer is that it's total hours spent streamside, not years.

That said, that's overly simplified too. If you spend all of May fishing a small stretch of Spring Creek every day, but never fish anywhere else, it doesn't matter how many hours you do it for, you are a beginner. Same is true if you spend all summer fishing little native brookie streams. Or if all you've ever fished for is stockies.

Experience implies a variety of experiences. Different streams and stream types, different trout species and origins, different times of the day and year, different water conditions, etc.

The guy who has 4 trips, 1 on a large limestoner, 1 on a large freestoner, 1 on a small freestoner, and 1 on the local ATW, is more experienced than someone who has 20 identical trips. Variety is the spice of life.

As I said earlier, I think I'm pretty good in some situations, can hold my own in others, and still a total absolute newb in others. I believe myself to be among the top group on a small stream in a rhodo tunnel, and can at least hold my own for an evening hatch or some high stick nymphing a run on a medium sized stream. But I have never cast a fly rod from a boat in my life. I've also never fly fished in the salt. And all I've ever caught out of stillwater is some sunnies.

 

[phiendWMD]

pcray, that is an interesting answer. I think a lot of people focus on a specific type of fishing and just do that. Some people are chasing brookies in streams you can jump over, some are looking for 25" wild browns on the West Branch, some are after smallmouth in rivers, others are looking for stripers or tarpon in the salt. To just have experience for different species of trout in different water takes a lot of time. To have knowledge of how to catch many species of fish in various types of water obviously takes much longer and takes away time you could be spending honing in on a subset. When you expand it to other types of fish it really puts things in perspective. Looking at it that way I'd say there are a lot more beginners than people are willing to admit. A guy that can catch 2 dozen browns on Valley might not even know what fly to tie on for a striper or a carp. Would they be a beginner?

The amount of experience you possess when you begin fly fishing also seems like it would make a difference. I am the opposite of you. I fished a little with a spinning rod as a kid however I was never serious enough to learn much. I threw a worm under a bobber in wherever and hoped a trout would come by and bite it. When I got back into fishing and went straight to a fly rod years later I really was a total fishing newb. Instead of having to learn fly specific information I was learning where trout are, when they feed, how to interpret their behavior and what is was telling me, and much more including things I probably don't even realize I need to know yet.

 

[pcray1231]

To just have experience for different species of trout in different water takes a lot of time. To have knowledge of how to catch many species of fish in various types of water obviously takes much longer and takes away time you could be spending honing in on a subset.

Yeah, but if you get a few other experiences, you'll find advancement in your subset. Some other aspect is more obvious somewhere else, but can be applied. For instance, if you always go to a local brookie stream at 9 a.m. and fish till 2 in early May, and catch about 30, you're fat and happy, and you end up doing the same thing over and over again.

Till you go to a brown trout stream the next day, and the fishing sucks from 9 till 2. But at 6 p.m. things really turned on. Then you think, hmm, wonder what the brookie stream would do at 6 p.m.?

So you try it, and catch 70 instead of 30.

Then comes June. Brookies are still better later in the day. But suddenly, the best brown trout fishing flips to the morning. Why?

Well, holy heck, it's all about water temps. When temps were in the 50's everywhere, evening was great because those were peak water temps. But come June, the temps on that lowland brownie stream surpassed 60, and now, morning is better because it's when it's the coldest. And guess what? Come August and September the brookie one may flip over too.

When you expand it to other types of fish it really puts things in perspective.

Yup. It's not just other types of fish. Even in the trout game there's a difference between limestoners and freestoners. There's vast differences based on gradient and fertility. Water temps. Siltation. Major hatch types. Flow rates and runoff rates. Stream size.

And suddenly your in the Carribbean with some mangroves to your back and you remember the snap cast you learned while brookie fishing.

You learn by exposing yourself to different situations. Then what you learn can be applied to new situations. And suddenly, even though you've never done something, you'd be able to pick it up pretty quickly. That's when you're not a beginner anymore.

It doesn't make you an expert though. Journeyman was a good word. After reaching journeyman status, then you can absolutely perfect one particular thing, and become an expert in it. Nobody is an expert in fly fishing. You can be an expert on Spring Creek, or the double haul, or entomology. But it's just too wide a sport to perfect everything.

 

[TimRobinsin]

OldLefty - let me take a stab at that

You are no longer a beginner once you have begun and there is no turning back.

 

[Six-Gun]

pcray1231 wrote:
The simple answer is that it's total hours spent streamside, not years.

That said, that's overly simplified too. If you spend all of May fishing a small stretch of Spring Creek every day, but never fish anywhere else, it doesn't matter how many hours you do it for, you are a beginner. Same is true if you spend all summer fishing little native brookie streams. Or if all you've ever fished for is stockies.

Experience implies a variety of experiences. Different streams and stream types, different trout species and origins, different times of the day and year, different water conditions, etc.

The guy who has 4 trips, 1 on a large limestoner, 1 on a large freestoner, 1 on a small freestoner, and 1 on the local ATW, is more experienced than someone who has 20 identical trips. Variety is the spice of life.

As I said earlier, I think I'm pretty good in some situations, can hold my own in others, and still a total absolute newb in others. I believe myself to be among the top group on a small stream in a rhodo tunnel, and can at least hold my own for an evening hatch or some high stick nymphing a run on a medium sized stream. But I have never cast a fly rod from a boat in my life. I've also never fly fished in the salt. And all I've ever caught out of stillwater is some sunnies.

This speaks just about perfectly to the reply that I was going to offer up: I think you cross the threshold of being a beginner to being an experienced fly fisherman when you walk up to just about any situation you will encounter and be reasonably confident that you will entice and catch fish.

On that note, I came to this forum as a beginner and feel that I have finally shed that label. Not an expert, certainly, but not a beginner either. Case in point, I went to St. Thomas a few weeks ago and did a guided fly fishing trip for tarpon. I had never in my life fly fished salt water (let alone tarpon) up to that point, but I knew what predatory, warmwater fish generally want to see from my time working bass, crappie and such. The guide found the fish, the tarpon toad hit the water and the fish responded to the same stripping action that works on bass. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that despite hooking up with 6 fish, I didn't land a single one, but hookset (and protecting 40 lb. test leader) on those beasts is a whole other ball of wax...but, I digress.