What Happened to Saucon Creek?

[JakesLeakyWaders]

Where's this saucon creek at. Everyones talking about it. I need to go there immediately. Might have to tell my friends about it. You know just a few close friends I can trust with a "secret".

Get it ? No ? Hmmmmm.

 

[lestrout]

There's been a zinc mine upstream, near the country club. The mine has been shut for a long time, and I was told the infamous dewatering of the Saucon several decades ago was due to the shutdown leading to turning off the drainage pumps - while the mine was filling up with water, the creek ran dry, until the mine finally filled and steady state water flow manifested itself in the creek again.

Where there's zinc, there's often lead. Is there any data showing what lead, and for that matter, zinc levels, are in the Saucon? I bet these toxic heavy metals hurt the overall health and fecundity of trouts. (Totally speculating) Maybe construction and development in the headwaters have caused storm surges to dilute the nice alkaline limestony 'natural' flow. Recalling high school chemistry, more acidic water would dissolve more of the lead and zinc compounds in the mine and they would be going into our creek.

 

[CLSports]

Interesting story on the mine Les. I had no idea that they would flood the old mine shaft to maintain the water table in the area. It makes complete sense though. I assume then the zinc and other waste materials are still leeching into the soils and water table to this day.

 

[Chaz]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:


"Really? It's an urban wild trout stream, it already is on peoples radar. I'd like to know how you think bring attention to this stream or any stream is a bad thing.
An stream without friends is a stream in trouble."
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So you are saying that drawing attention and creating additional pressure on a stream is a good thing? Please explain.

Bringing attention to the stream is a good thing when anglers think there is something wrong there, now ANSWER MY QUESTION!

 

[Chaz]

lestrout wrote:
There's been a zinc mine upstream, near the country club. The mine has been shut for a long time, and I was told the infamous dewatering of the Saucon several decades ago was due to the shutdown leading to turning off the drainage pumps - while the mine was filling up with water, the creek ran dry, until the mine finally filled and steady state water flow manifested itself in the creek again.

Where there's zinc, there's often lead. Is there any data showing what lead, and for that matter, zinc levels, are in the Saucon? I bet these toxic heavy metals hurt the overall health and fecundity of trouts. (Totally speculating) Maybe construction and development in the headwaters have caused storm surges to dilute the nice alkaline limestony 'natural' flow. Recalling high school chemistry, more acidic water would dissolve more of the lead and zinc compounds in the mine and they would be going into our creek.

Les,
All of the development is in the valley not he head waters, I've lived here for 20 years and in that time only a few houses a year have been built, mostly on large parcels.

 

[Chaz]

JakesLeakyWaders wrote:
Where's this saucon creek at. Everyones talking about it. I need to go there immediately. Might have to tell my friends about it. You know just a few close friends I can trust with a "secret".

Get it ? No ? Hmmmmm.

Make sure you tell 16 friends who tell 16 friends, etc.

 

[JackM]

Sixteen squared? I think we just exceeded the trout permit limit.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Chaz said-
"Bringing attention to the stream is a good thing when anglers think there is something wrong there, now ANSWER MY QUESTION!"

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Drawing attention to a stream because there is a problem is different than advertising it online. The horn tooting and promotion that goes on with the online crowd is without precedent. Additional angling pressure, especially on smaller trout streams in populated areas is a bad thing. I can tell you from experience that posts on this board have popularized certain streams and the size and quantity of fish has declined. Believe what you want. I can assure you that in most cases the streams are better off without the kind of friends that pound them on a regular basis or promote them online. And catch and release fly fisherman are not the only people who read the postings or lists.
Chaz- Can you name a stream that angling pressure has helped?

 

[Chaz]

Foxtrapper,
Just about every freestone stream near a limestone stream is helped by attention drawn to the limestone stream. Because pressure is on the limestone stream because it is well known and takes pressure off of freestone streams. Big limestone streams can handle a lot of pressure. A large constituency on a large limestone stream(spring creek) is a good thing because it draws in conservationists to all streams. A stream with no advocates is a dead stream.
Think about the wild trout streams that are stocked, everyone wants to keep them from getting known, how does that help to get those streams off the stocking list? It doesn't and never will. But that same stream with a fair number of advocates will get the attention of anglers that want to stop the stocking and that's a very good thing.
Saucon Creek is a known wild trout stream, it's been on the Class A list for over 20 years and has a fine population of trout. It's not easily fished, if there is poaching, and I believe there is, how does it help to keep anglers off that stream? The poachers will eventually clean it out if there aren't any anglers there fishing it drawing attention to the fact that poachers are keeping fish.
NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION OR SHUT UP.

 

[Chaz]

CLSports wrote:
Interesting story on the mine Les. I had no idea that they would flood the old mine shaft to maintain the water table in the area. It makes complete sense though. I assume then the zinc and other waste materials are still leeching into the soils and water table to this day.

That's not what happened, the whole time the mine was operating there was water pumped out of the mine it is a deep mine and is still there. The water flowing into the mine was from the limestone aquifer, and not flowing into the creek. When the mine shut down, they also turned off the pumps, and the stream dried up, with just a trickle between any pools that still existed.
No one knew what would happen when the pumps shut down. Would the aquifer fill up and start flowing into the stream? Would the stream just be a dry bed?
This is where drawing attention to the stream is a good thing, as I'm sure that there was a public outcry. Within 6 months the aquifer filled, and the water flowed and the trout came out of the Lehigh River and developed into a great fishery. But the story doesn't end there.
The stream had advocates that were watching out for the trout population. PFBC stocked trout the stream, a local club did too. The wild trout population grew and far outpaced the stocking done, within a short time the creek had a sizable wild population, enough to get the attention of PFBC to survey the stream again.
In about 1990 it was determined that Saucon had a Class A pop. of browns. A second survey was run couple of years later and the size of the pop. was still Class A, so PFBC was going to stop stocking. There was an outcry from truck chasers. To the point that they had petitions posted in the Lehigh Valley tackle shops all over the valley. Many anglers who wanted the stream protected from stocking and get protected under DEP regs.
(that's the other issue) said no take it off the stocking list.
So if that stream hadn't had advocates it probably would still be stocked in the lower section. The club still stocks above , which to me needs to be ended. That's another fight.
Oh and this same scenario played out on a couple other Lehigh Valley Streams, it's part of why there are 4 T.U. chapters there advocating for the streams.

 

[CLSports]

Thanks for the clarification on the mine Chaz.

As to your other post about stream "friends"; I think there is a huge difference between those very few people that are actually concerned enough about a stream to help improve the stream quality and those others that come to the stream to simply take advantage of its resource.

True stream friends are hard to come by. It is usually the people that live locally that will care. This is the difference that people argue about. Stream traffic does not equate to stream friends. Although there may be exceptions to the rule it is generally not helping the matter.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Chaz says-"It's not easily fished, if there is poaching, and I believe there is, how does it help to keep anglers off that stream? The poachers will eventually clean it out if there aren't any anglers there fishing it drawing attention to the fact that poachers are keeping fish.
NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION OR SHUT UP."

Chaz-Easy there fellow. I am just asking a few questions and commenting here.
I am wondering how you define poaching? On an unstocked stream with no closed season and no special regs (Almost all our class A streams) there isn't much that falls into the illegal category except keeping fish under the legal size. So you are claiming that these "watchdog" flyfishers have been responsible for protecting the streams?

 

[Smike]

I am wondering how you define poaching? On an unstocked stream with no closed season and no special regs (Almost all our class A streams) there isn't much that falls into the illegal category except keeping fish under the legal size. So you are claiming that these "watchdog" flyfishers have been responsible for protecting the streams?

Saucon section in question here is TT Regs, so anything that is beyond the allowed keep would be poaching obviously. I.E undersized trout, but more in this case its the beyond the 2 fish per day limit.

 

[tomitrout]

On an unstocked stream with no closed season and no special regs (Almost all our class A streams) there isn't much that falls into the illegal category except keeping fish under the legal size.

Or keeping fish out of season, which for a non-ATW regulated stream runs from Opening day in April until Labor Day wknd, extended season does not apply, so no creeling in the fall or winter.

 

[afishinado]

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2015/04/bethlehem_to_crack_down_on_tro.html

 

[foxtrapper1972]

Maybe they could just deputize some of those watchdog flyfishers that some of you have mentioned. Instead of reporting problems they could just bust the poachers and the other hell raisers.

 

[jrmyln]

There was also some talk recently of making it a pay park.

 

[afishinado]

jrmyln wrote:
There was also some talk recently of making it a pay park.

From the article:

Bethlehem considered installing gates at the park's entrances and charging admission for non-residents but later decided it would be too difficult because the park has multiple entrances and some residents' homes are within the park's borders...

 

[krayfish2]

That guy's name is 'carp'. LOL. Sorry, found it amusing.

 

[Smike]

Instead of reporting problems they could just bust the poachers and the other hell raisers

Haha you ever visited that park on a nice sunny weekend? The music and BBQ's start prior to 9am, and the first gun shots are usually around 10am.