Wading in Posted Water

[MD_Gene]

I know that the topic of wading in waters that are posted has been hashed out here more than once. Please help me understand and correct me if I am wrong. One can wade in PA waters as long as you are in the water (below the high water mark). Correct? The water has to be "navigable"? What exactly does that mean? Is there a list of such PA waters? Can you look up a specific stream to see if it qualifies?

I am particularly interested in my home stream Codorus Creek.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jay_H]

Gene,

Check your PM as I’m curious as well to the posted area.

Thanks!

 

[Lkyboots]

If the landowner owns both sides of the creek your trespassing. You can float over posted land as long as you don't get out.

 

[jifigz]

Lkyboots wrote:
If the landowner owns both sides of the creek your trespassing. You can float over posted land as long as you don't get out.

This didn't exactly answer his question since he asked about wading, but I will try to expand upon it. First of all, yes, there is an old book that can be found that lists "navigable" waterways in the state. Does this book really mean anything? Probably not and if a landowner wanted to have a court battle over this against those that wants access to a stream who knows how the court would rule.

We are all familiar with the Little J and that court battle that occurred. Most people don't have that kind of money to have a court battle and if the Little J wasn't the trout stream it is without popular support it wouldn't have been so publicized and probably wouldn't have gone in the anglers favor.

Now, I will look into the Codorus for you and see if it is in that old book..if it is it still doesn't mean it is okay. But, if it is okay and deemed a public waterway then yes, you would be able to be within the streambed. I am not sure how we define the "high water mark." The best bet is seek out the landowner and ask permission.

 

[Bruno]

Here is a link to some more info

https://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/Fishing/Pages/PublicAccessToWaters.aspx

If you do decide to pursue this carry documentation with you as it may help fend off a WCO or policeman.

When I was young and dumb my buddy and I would fish Donny Beavers water on the little j. Boy it was a hoot. They would come down and take pictures of us and stare us down hard. We just kept fishing. It was around the time he put the giant sign up.

 

[afishinado]

If you do a search on here, there have been many conversations about this issue.

Attached below is a link to a list of PA waters deemed public/navigable by the PA DCNR.

As others stated, the list is not legally binding and the matter of navigability of a stream or river must be settled in a PA court for the stream or riverbed to be deemed usable by the public.

http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=1738602&DocName=Navigable_Waterway_List_022812.pdf

 

[Swattie87]

If a stream has been tested in the PA courts, and declared navigable (Little J example), then yes, you can stay within the ordinary high water mark and wade legally. Keep in mind, most of the ones that have gone through court are relatively big rivers, that when at all but the lowest flows likely have areas on them you can’t wade through within the high-water mark, and you’ll need to step out onto the posted bank at some point to get around. If that happens, you are now in the wrong, and trespassing. Just FYI…Factor that in to your plans to wade on posted, but court declared navigable waters. (You clearly need to enter and exit the high water mark area from a legal, unposted place to do so as well.)

For those not declared navigable in the courts, it’s a calculated risk as to who’s in the legal right…The angler for wading within the high-water mark, assuming navigability and public access. Or the landowner for posting, assuming private property rights. I don’t think the Codorus has been run through court. So, if you do wade on posted property, and are cited, be prepared to either be funding the case that puts the Codorus through the courts, or accept your trespassing violation. Just know that going in and determine if it’s worth the risk in your mind.

 

[moon1284]

I'll fish somewhere until I'm no longer comfortable. If someone comes out with a gun or is throwing things at me I'd leave pretty quickly. If they are just mouthing off i'd probably take my time. The whole thing is a grey area nobody is sure of the law until it goes to court. PWM (public water matters) LOL

 

[CodorusTUTom]

I can't speak for other streams, but I can share this regarding the Codorus. If people keep pushing that perceived navigable waters loophole there, it won't matter whether it's navigable or not. That's because they'll be triggering larger scale postings that will leave you with nowhere to park, and no way to even get to the water. The landowners really don't care what list you found on the internet. It's private property. We should be thanking them for the access they do give. So there's two simple choices here: 1) just obey the frickin' signs - there's plenty of other water or; 2) be the person who just keeps pushing and pushing and ends the fishing for you and everyone else. Please choose carefully.

 

[laszlo]

I'm with Tom the posted water on Codorus is minimal. Let's not ruin a little gem.

 

[Floggingtrout]

Every time I see these discussions I wonder how the Nordic countries pull of the “right to roam”. I witnessed while fishing Ireland public was granted access to waters surrounded by private land by access gated fenced paths. It was usually a bit of a walk but I could still fish the same waters as the people spending countless dollars in a castle.

 

[salmonoid]

Lkyboots wrote:
If the landowner owns both sides of the creek your trespassing. You can float over posted land as long as you don't get out.

Can you cite the case-law for your last sentence? Because landowners own the stream bed on non-navigable streams and if it's posted, you're trespassing if you float over it... I guess your statement is technically correct - you CAN float over it, but you're trespassing if it's posted.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Can you cite your case law?
As far as i knew the water is public, the streambed is private. You can indeed float over as long as you never touch bottom.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

https://www.fishandboat.com/LearningCenter/FAQs/Pages/PublicAccess.aspx

#17

 

[PennKev]

salmonoid wrote:

Lkyboots wrote:
If the landowner owns both sides of the creek your trespassing. You can float over posted land as long as you don't get out.

Can you cite the case-law for your last sentence? Because landowners own the stream bed on non-navigable streams and if it's posted, you're trespassing if you float over it... I guess your statement is technically correct - you CAN float over it, but you're trespassing if it's posted.

See number 17 on this list from the PAFBC:

Public Rights in PA Waters

Edit:
Oops. Sals to quick for me.

 

[MD_Gene]

I agree. I in no way want to advocate that someone fish past posted property. I started this thread to look for information to share with a friend of mine who may have trespassed on a creek and I was looking for information with the intend to dissuade him from doing so in the future.

 

[maxima12]

Good place for this!

If you support the Fish Commission to a better future, well, trying to think regular today! Lot's of more places to WADE!

Maxima12

 

[larkmark]

The heavy posting on Codorus is because of fly fishermen. Good luck trying to wade up into it from the unposted areas below. The silt will suck you in.

 

[CodorusTUTom]

The short section posted this year had nothing to do with fishermen of any kind. It was trespassing, vandalism and theft in a structure near the creek. The section posted last year was not "because of fly fishermen". It was because one idiot, who happened to be fly fishing at the time, was verbally abusive to the landowner's little kids...the last straw in a long series of encounters where that 1% of disrespectful, bonehead anglers ruined it for everyone else. We reap what we sow.

 

[larkmark]

CORRECTION:The section posted last year was because of a fly fisherman and the last straw in a series of encounters with fishermen and others.

That makes it better.

To be clear. A lot of that section already had posting for years but fishing was tolerated. The constant year round use and the various incidents lead to the now heavy posting and absolutely no trespassing for any reason.

I spoke with the guy. He is a very friendly guy but has had enough. He wouldn't let me on by the way.