Valley Creek vs. PA Turnpike

[englishprof]

Who do you believe?

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20160402_Trout_lovers_say_turnpike_expansion_threatens_blue-ribbon_Valley_Forge_stream.html

 

[Nymph-wristed]

I believe the plans that engineers make for storm-water management work on paper and would work if executed with the precision needed to get it right. However, I live near a Turnpike holding pond at the Ft Washington/Rt 309 exit that is empty after every rain. I also lived through Plymouth Rd being washed out and not having easy access to the Blue Route for a long time when they built a huge apartment and townhouse community on the site of a limestone quarry with out wondering if the excess run-off would wash out the roadbed underneath (it did).

The contractors that bid the jobs the cheapest get the job, and they are hardly storm-water experts. Too much money is spent with good intentions (at least at the planning level) but the execution of these plans are total b.s. Maybe I'll tie myself to the overpass???

 

[sarce]

As a stormwater engineer, I can't agree with TU on this one, at least as their stance is presented in the article. They are going from no treatment, to some treatment. Even if it is not as good as it could be, it is an improvement over existing conditions. There is still a whole watershed that needs work.

However, nymph-wristed brings up a good point. Many developers/owners only care about meeting the ordinance requirements to get the plans approved, with no consideration of how they will actually function in practice. There is a big difference between designing to meet regulations, and designing to actually solve the problem. Usually the final design is a compromise between the two, because the engineer will always want to solve the problem (HOPEFULLY), and the owner wants to spend the least amount of time and money possible.

If these plans are public anywhere I'd actually find them very interesting to look at.

 

[LouM]

Any plan for storm water management or development should go through the township planning comm. for approval. It is then up to the township and their engineer to make suggestion prior to approval to make sure all requirements,state local and federal are met. However enter politics and you know then what happens.

 

[barbless]

another thing that stormwater management projects like rain gardens require to function well: regular maintenance.

There are some productive jobs there, if only taxpayers or concerned citizens were willing to pay for the upkeep.

 

[AndyP]

Without typing a PCray length post I can give some insight. There are 2 main issues here. First, the Township reached an agreement with the Turnpike Commission allowing the TPC to ignore the Township's very own storm water regulations. This is not allowed in the opnion of VFTU. Secondly, there is some very strong disagreement over the engineering and calculations on the TPC plans when reviewed by outside engineers. I attended a meeting at Tredyffrin Township to discuss this expansion only to learn that the TPC representatives would listen/hear my questions and concerns but would not be answering any questions at " at this time " . Not a great way to treat the public in my opinion. At no point is the goal to stop a project, just get the best storm water treatment possible under current regulations. The last statement is my opinion, as I have taken a break and am not a VFTU Board member at this time.

 

[LouM]

It's like I said, Andy, until politics get involved. I worked for 3 townships and have seen it.

 

[AndyP]

Hey Lou - guess who retired from building houses and now is a Codes Official for Radnor Twnshp ?..... You guessed it !

 

[LouM]

I hope he is as good as I was.

 

[rrt]

FYI -- There is an article about Valley Creek in the present issue of Trout magazine.

 

[Chaz]

Ian't Valley Creek an Exceptional Value Stream as regulated by DEP? If so they are required to have no impact. If the Township waved their regulations they broke the law.
A storm water management plan is required by law.

 

[AndyP]

Chaz - that's basically been the point from day one. I've been active in this watershed to some degree for awhile and it always comes back to VFTU asking some State or Local authority to JUST FOLLOW THEIR REGULATIONS. If the EV status of Valley was adhered too we wouldn't have as many disagreements.