Under/Over lining reel

[widowmaker121]

I usually just let the shop spool my stuff up and run whatever the specs are as listed. I currently find myself with some extra stuff laying around and wanted to rig up an outfit for co-workers and friends who are primarily spin fisherman to introduce them to the fly fishing world. Last weekend, I picked up a G Loomis Venture 5 reel (made in Denmark) at a yard sale for $20. The box is more beat up than the reel. I have 2 spare rods laying around- a Douglas ERA 8.5 4# and a St. Croix Mojo Trout in the same size 8.5" 4#. I also have a box of SA Amplitude Infinity WF4F laying around. The thing is in the spec for the Loomis reel, it doesn't list WF4F as an option for the reel. Is it okay to spool it up? Should I use gel spun, instead of dacron for the backing?

 

[goose54cdd]

If I'm throwing a weight forward line I always overline by one weight. It seems to cast better that way. It might be all in my head, but that's what I do.

 

[KeviR]

I think that's a pretty good reel, and a steal for $20.
And it's nice of you to introduce some folks to FF.
From the spec sheet it appears that a WF line has less bulk than a DT line, so with a WF4F, you should be able to put >100 yds of backing with the line. (I am assuming that the specs are based on standard dacron backing.) I would not use GS because it is thinner and will not fill up the spool as much. It will be a little under filled with 100yds and your WF4F line, but that's OK. It'll work fine.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear widowmaker 121,

To echo what KeviR said above you'll need more than 100 yards of backing to fill that reel with a WF4 line.

If it matters to you to have the reel filled completely you could always build up the arbor of the reel a bit with masking or electrical tape.

I'm sure some people will think I'm nuts with that remark above. But I'm serious!

I'm glad that you are willing to take newbies out and show them the ropes. That is a nice idea. But is there is anyone who reads this forum that thinks a newbie will be concerned about how his or her backing is secured to the reel?

I've been flyfishing for over 50 years and some of my reels still have the original backing on them! This is Pennsylvania not Patagonia. A fish hooked on a 4WT rod by a newcomer that gets into the backing will make that rod fly out of their hand in amazement.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[widowmaker121]

Thanks Tim & KeviR, I just ordered some dacron and will get this set up.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Thanks Tim & KeviR, I just ordered some dacron and will get this set up.

This appears to fall within the "your results may vary" category. Sure, it says "specifications" but a lot of times, the listing is more of a guideline. You're well on track with trying out the line you have on hand with Dacron backing. The end user will likely be stripping line in, to land a fish anyway - which has little to do with how the reel is loaded.

 

[afishinado]

As a general note on filling your spool with backing. The specs are a guideline, but I recommend you leave at least a quarter of an inch of space on the spool. When reeling in a fish, often the line is not spooled evenly (to one side) and the line may contact the body of the reel. This is especially true for the large arbor spools made today since they are often wider than the older type spools.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

As a general note on filling your spool with backing. The specs are a guideline, but I recommend you leave at least a quarter of an inch of space on the spool. When reeling in a fish, often the line is not spooled evenly (to one side) and the line may contact the body of the reel. This is especially true for the large arbor spools made today since they are often wider than the older type spools.

^This.

Leaving space is good because when retrieving line without tension the line won't wrap as tightly around the spool as it would under tension. I'd rather have less than more in this scenario. I've had reels I overfilled to the point of having to leave some line out of the reel and wrap it around the reel foot, which was not good for the line's memory over prolonged storage. I have also cut down the running portion of several fly lines to get higher line wt lines to fit on smaller reels. It's easier to save space by cutting down the running line. This was annoying when I transferred these lines to larger reels and casted them on rods with more range capabilities. DON'T DO THIS. I have several lines lying around that are useless because they are too short now...

 

[Silent Ocelot]

If it matters to you to have the reel filled completely you could always build up the arbor of the reel a bit with masking or electrical tape.

I'm sure some people will think I'm nuts with that remark above. But I'm serious!

Not nuts at all! I use duct tape on the inside of one of my old reels that has a defunct drag system so the spool has no resistance when spinning. I've since put duct tape on the inside of the reel to add just enough friction to keep the spool from free-spooling and dumping a lot of line off. It doesn't provide as much tension as I'd like but when I have increased the layering of the tape the reel just locked up.

No worries of needing a drag to stop larger fish as I don't catch big fish.

 

[Bamboozle]

When filling a reel with backing for trout fishing, I do a couple of things:

First, except with tiny reels I choose a backing size that fills the reel quickly. In other words, I'm not married to 20 lb and often use 30lb instead.

Second, I ignore the "spec" sheets and do the line reverse thing to figure out how much backing I need. What I mean by that is I put on the LINE on the reel first, then I add enough backing to the line to fill the reel to my desired "fill" point. Then I wind the line and backing from the reel to a line winder and from there to a second line winder then back onto the reel in reverse.​

​

It sounds a bit tricky and it can be if you don't own a couple of line winders or have a homemade custom line winding station for the purpose but you get a perfectly filled spool every time with no wasted backing.​

​

Finally, before I finish filling the spool I make a cocktail or open a beer, propose a toast and bid a fond farewell to my backing knowing I'll never see again or in action. ​

Another piece of advice, practice educating your pinky to move back & forth in front of your reel when you wind line like the line guide on a casting reel. When you can do this with a level of proficiency it is easy to lay the line back and forth on your spool evenly.

Have fun!!

 

[Silent Ocelot]

^This

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Finally, before I finish filling the spool I make a cocktail or open a beer, propose a toast and bid a fond farewell to my backing knowing I'll never see again or in action. ​

Same, I hand-line everything, even "steelhead", they're just big trout after all.

 

[Bamboozle]

Its funny but most people don't realize how much backing or even fishing line they DON'T need for their intended quarry at their destination...

I've recently purchased a new casting reel and a new spinning reel, both with really shallow spools. When spooling them up with line for the first time my gut was telling me was to use braid or go lighter because I was paranoid I didn't have enough line.

Once I got them on the water I quickly realized most casts were much less than 50 feet and none of the punk-a$$ fish I caught could engage the drag, much less run line...

Same thing goes with backing on trout reels for fishing in PA. I realize many folks like backing because it increases the diameter of the reel arbor and thereby reduces line coiling but there are also folks that think they need the backing in case some dink wants to take refuge upstream after being hooked...

I have a couple of small reels I use in the 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" range that hold so little backing you can't even see it through the porting on the reel, yet I've never seen my backing since the day I spooled the reel...

Go figure...

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Another piece of advice, practice educating your pinky to move back & forth in front of your reel when you wind line like the line guide on a casting reel. When you can do this with a level of proficiency it is easy to lay the line back and forth on your spool evenly.

I do this to make a v-groove of sorts, in the center of the arbor - so my leader/tippet doesn't wind up between the spool and the frame of my inexpensive reel.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Is your shallow spool spinning setup for Edo-style? I know you like that kind of fishing. I've been conducting some micro-fishing local to me now that it is not viable to fish for trout local to my area. @Bamboozle, have you ever experimented with Berkeley nano fill? I have a spool of it in 2lb. test in one of my drawers. It feels like floss. You could have it if you wanted it, I ain't gonna put it to use. It's a leftover from an Ultralight spinning idea I had awhile back.

I agree on your statement about fly fishers and their backing. It is important to get the line to stack. I've seen anglers have longer trout combatting times than I've had steelhead fishing. I doubt I've ever had a steelhead fight time that broke 4 minutes (side pressure, side pressure, side pressure). I don't even know what the point of putting a trout that is less than 16 inches onto the reel unless you are running 6X or 7X.

 

[goose54cdd]

I'm sorry. I didn't read the thread correctly.

 

[Bamboozle]

Is your shallow spool spinning setup for Edo-style...

The casting reel is a BFS (bait finesses system) reel meant to cast 1+ gram lures with a casting rod & reel.

The spinning reel is a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) version of a Shimano Twin Power reel unavailable in the USA. The shallow spool is because the Japanese realized a long time ago that you don't need 300 yards of fishing line on a 2500 sized reel...

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Interesting. I had a Shimano CI4+ 1500 FAML (forget what that anacronym stands for). It had a nice metallic deep red color to it. It also had a fairly shallow spool. That's pretty neat to have a reel that has not yet made its way to the USA. I love imports!

 

[Bamboozle]

The baitcaster I have only holds 50 yards of 6lb (I'm using 4lb Japanese fluorocarbon line which is thinner than USA fluoro so I get a bit more capacity) and the spinning reel only holds 100 yards of 6lb mono which would be 75 yards if I used US 6lb mono (I'm using 6lb Japanese mono which also is thinner).

Bottom line, one blow-up on either and I'm SOL during a fishing trip...

I love imports too although securing some of the tackle I have isn't easy because not everything is sold by dealers that ship to the USA. In those cases if you want it bad enough, you have to find it on eBay and take your chances or go through a broker who charges fees in addition to the product cost, shipping, import duties and other fees...

However, right now I'm waiting for a quote from a broker on a little 4'10" fiberglass Japanese baitcasting rod that will make it easier to throw 1 grams lures on that baitcaster.

God help me and my wallet if I ever go to Japan...

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Japanese fluorocarbon is incredible stuff. My Cortland Fluorocarbon is incredible stuff. My 5X is rated at 5.7lbs, 4.6 lbs. over what Orvis Mirage offers in the same diameter. I never go steelheading without it...

The appeal of imports is the rarity and hard-to-get aspect of it. I just like getting exclusive gear, and sometimes watching the resale price skyrocket over the years.

Hope you get that 4'10" rod secured, that's shorter than any rod I've ever fished than some odd steel rod with a closed bail reel that I fished as a kid and probably threw around when I got mad.

I understand your last sentence wholeheartedly. When stationed in Japan me and my buddy would end up taking our sea bags with us when going to Akihabara and Nakano Broadway. Those would return filled with F1 and Bond merchandise and we'd still have additional bags with us. Good times!

I am curious as to why US made rods have a high resale value in Japan. Is it because of the import fees when they initially transferred said item or has the USD fallen that far behind? Back in 2012-2014 it seemed as though yen was relatively equal to USD.