Tying Emergers---Been away a long time

[RonB]

Been away from fly tying for about 15 years. Got back into it in 2010. I was wondering how many of you tie emergers to use and how well they work for you. So many times times I see trout taking caddis right under the surface and would like some good patterns to tie up to use.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Hi Ron,
Welcome back to the fold/obsession/cult I use emergers quite a bit, and they are very effective during caddis hatches. I like the CDC bubble wings, or even just a bit of CDC tied in as an overwing. I started tying a CDC BWO pattern that I learned from Davy McPhail's youtube page about a year ago and have been playing with that basic pattern just changing body materials and colors. You can see the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXV2lwTpMZs
And another interesting one here that is on my winter to-tie list:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFWb3jl-KQ
Mike.

 

[troutslammer]

pheasant tail soft hackle (sz 12 , 14 , 16 ) hares ear soft hackle , black body soft hackle (for the grannom caddis , usually 1st to appear in spring ) this should cover all bases , if they are taking em right under the surface maybe fish them off a dropper of say 6x on a bigger caddis fly as a strike indicator

 

[RonB]

Thanks for the info....

 

[David]

Most caddis that I am aware of emerge as adults on the bottom and swim or crawl to the surface. Therefore, I simply use a dry caddis pattern that I pinch wet to sink. They are very good swimmers, so I will fish it on the swing and even give a strip or two at the end of the swing.
For mayflies, I certainly carry a variety, but don't often rely on my emerger box. I typically start with a compara fly on the surface. Since it lies flush in the water, it often gets strikes for me when the fish are taking the emergers.
Many use antron if tying a trailing shuck for their emergers...I typically use marabou with success. For the wing, I use standard wing materials (deer hair, duck flank, etc.) but tie it either in a loop (too represent the unfurling wings) or flush over the back of the fly (to represent wings that have not evolved upright yet).

 

[FrequentTyer]

David wrote:
Most caddis that I am aware of emerge as adults on the bottom and swim or crawl to the surface. Therefore, I simply use a dry caddis pattern that I pinch wet to sink.

David,
I've now doubt that would work fine, but technically caddis emerge as pupa on the bottom and swim to the surface to shed their shucks and emerge. Those that live in cocoons do leave the cocoons on the bottom, but they are still in their pupal skin. This is the basis for patterns like the sparkle pupa that are supposed to mimic the gas bubbles trapped in the pupal skin that aid in the rise to the surface. So the wet version of the dry caddis or the soft hackles really are most likely mimicking pupae not emergers.
Mike.

 

[David]

FrequentTyer wrote:

David,
I've now doubt that would work fine, but technically caddis emerge as pupa on the bottom and swim to the surface to shed their shucks and emerge. Those that live in cocoons do leave the cocoons on the bottom, but they are still in their pupal skin. This is the basis for patterns like the sparkle pupa that are supposed to mimic the gas bubbles trapped in the pupal skin that aid in the rise to the surface. So the wet version of the dry caddis or the soft hackles really are most likely mimicking pupae not emergers.
Mike.

They are in they shuck, but in adult form. Fisherman call them pupa, but technically, they are adults...

"It is no longer technically a pupa in the language of entomologists, but because anglers universally recognize the term "pupa" I use that convenional misnomer throughout this site."
From troutnut.com

If I were drifting it, it might imitate the pupa, (Lafontaines sparkle pupa was designed to imitate the caddis drift http://www.troutnut.com/hatch/12/Insect-Trichoptera-Caddisflies) but the emergence is in the just under the film or in the film which is where the "swing and strip" will position the fly.

Its just semantics...My point was that I don't often need to get technical to catch fish feeding on emergers. Using other patterns (such as the adult compara for mayflies) can still be useful in taking fish feeding on emerging bugs.

 

[troutslammer]

david ,
did you ask the question because your immitation wasn't working or did you want conformation that your immitation would work ? caddis = larvae -pupa-adult , mayflies =nymph -adult

 

[David]

troutslammer wrote:
david ,
did you ask the question because your immitation wasn't working or did you want conformation that your immitation would work ? caddis = larvae -pupa-adult , mayflies =nymph -adult

???? Confused! What question did I ask?

 

[FrequentTyer]

Thanks for the additional information and links Dave. I agree that we are discussing semantics, and drawing a line between stages based on the biology is best left to the entomologists. The original question was about caddis emergers. Semantics aside, the emergence is an event that anglers can exploit, and it occurs at/on the surface. So if RonB wants to mimic emerging caddis he should be looking for patterns that float and have a butt end hanging down below the film. If he wants to mimic swimming adults in their pupal skin (or pupa to the non entomologist) that is a different event and some of the other suggestions would work well. Both will obviously catch fish.
On the issue of LaFontain's sparkle pupa, I should have been more careful with what I called it. The fly discussed in your Troutnut link is actually the "deep sparkle pupa" which indeed imitates the swimming or drifting pre-emergent bug. I was thinking of the "emergent sparkle pupa" which has a deer hair wing and floats as a proper emerger pattern should.

 

[RonB]

Ok, I have already tied some different colors of emergent sparkle pupa from Caddisflies "LaFontaines" I was just curious to what works and what others use. Thank You all for the help.

 

[David]

FrequentTyer wrote:
The original question was about caddis emergers. Semantics aside, the emergence is an event that anglers can exploit, and it occurs at/on the surface. So if RonB wants to mimic emerging caddis he should be looking for patterns that float and have a butt end hanging down below the film. If he wants to mimic swimming adults in their pupal skin (or pupa to the non entomologist) that is a different event and some of the other suggestions would work well. Both will obviously catch fish.

The original question also involved how people fish emergers...and notes fish taking caddis just under the surface. As noted, my fly will swing / strip into the "emergence zone" at the surface...this is where I get the majority of strikes. It also rises through the water column to get there which further imitates an insects actual behavioral pattern immediately before the emergence. The actual emergence is typically a very short window of time not allowing for close inspection. Again, I think it is semantics to separate actions which happen so rapidly in succession. I would say you might be imitating a still born by drifting a sparkle emerger (still an effective method)...and that the motion could be considered just as important as design. There are many different ways to be effective with fish taking emergers. The actual emergence activity does not provide a constant profile, therefore, you don't need to have an exact duplicate (which can't be reproduced anyway until we design a fly that wiggles and shucks...although there may be a market in additional shucks to be replaced after each cast!)
I was not refuting your recommendation, I was simply trying to supplement it. My point, without having a complete skill level / preference list / desires of RonB, was to give him some additional options on other methods / ties for him to consider when fish are feeding on emergers. This additional information would hopefully allow RonB to tie according to his whims and desires as he chooses.

 

[FrequentTyer]

David wrote:
I was not refuting your recommendation, I was simply trying to supplement it. My point, without having a complete skill level / preference list / desires of RonB, was to give him some additional options on other methods / ties for him to consider when fish are feeding on emergers. This additional information would hopefully allow RonB to tie according to his whims and desires as he chooses.

Thanks David. I was not trying to refute your recommendations either, and I have enjoyed the informative discussion and comments. If I understand you correctly, you are arguing that non-emerger patterns (e.g. a sunk adult caddis) can be fished to mimic the behavior of a pre-emergent bug and will catch fish. I agree 100%.
On the other hand, caddis emerge at the surface and emerger patterns float and are fished similar to drys. Maybe I'm just an emerger purist
Happy New Year,
Mike.

 

[afishinado]

I agree with David about his K.I.S.S. philosophy with emergers. Damp dries work well for emergers. Catskill flies are not good patterns for emergers, but a low-riding parachute or Comparadun usually work well.

Here are some a little more specialized flies I have success fishing over a hatch:.

A sparkle dun works well for emerging insects. A sparkle dun is simply a Comparadun with a Z-lon or Darlon (Antron yarn works in a pinch) “tail” to represent a trailing shuck.
Check out the fly below. It can be tied in any color and size to represent any mayfly hatch.
http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/flybox/details.cfm?parentID=46

I also have a good bit of success tying a Klinhammer for matching MF hatches. An olive or pheasant tail body with a peacock herl or peacock Ice Dub thorax is a great searching fly when nothing is hatching. The pattern really shines for fishing in on top with a dropper trailing a small to medium sized nymph.
http://www.flytyingforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t9580.html

My most successful fly for caddis hatches is the LaFountaine Emergent Sparkle Pupa. It can be tied in any size and color to match a caddis hatch. Before the hatch I often use a Deep Sparkle pupa, which is essentially an ESP weighted and without the wing.
http://hipwader.com/2003/emergent-sparkle-pupa

Good luck tying and fishin'

 

[troutpoop]

What are the thoughts on the parachute flies for a similar presentation? They ride an inch +/- under the surface?

 

[afishinado]

troutpoop wrote:
What are the thoughts on the parachute flies for a similar presentation? They ride an inch +/- under the surface?

No, parachutes and Comparaduns ride belly down on the surface as opposed to catskills which ride higher on the hackle tips.

Just spit on your dry fly and it will sink a little and ride in the film (not kidding)........lol

 

[troutpoop]

Afish, I'm confused and looking for information, not disagreeing. My understanding of the parachute fly was that they ride just under the film, held there by a small tuft/parachute on a piece of mono?

I read an article about them and don't know much about them but wanted to give them a shot. I may have the wrong fly for the application.

 

[MKern]

troutpoop they are parasol emergers.

parachutes are a dry fly where a puff of yarn extends toward the sky and is wrapped with hackle.

 

[troutpoop]

Afish, I have been corrected, Parasol fly. I'm wondering about them and a possible similar use???
Thanks Mkern.

 

[RonB]

Thanks a lot guys.....Now I have some good ideas