Train tracks and Trout streams

[wbranch]

The WB & the main stem Delaware has RR tracks running from Deposit, NY to Port Jervis, NY, about 88 miles. The Beaverkill has an old RR bed running from Cairns Pool all the way to the confluence of the Beaverkill and East Branch and extending to Hancock, NY for about 25 miles. RR tracks were typically always laid along rivers because it was obviously the path of least resistance (the absence of structure that would impede RR construction)

 

[wbranch]

There are narrow gage RR tracks along Muddy Creek in York County, PA.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Those old trains were used to transport trout all over the world. I'd say the distribution of trout can be directly linked to the train systems as they would have been the major way to get from a to b back when the trout were introduced from Europe. In 1883 when the Brown Trout came from Germany to New York the trains would have been the major "high speed" method of transportation. GG

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The entire Pleasant Stream, Rock Run area is covered with railroad and logging grades running parallel to the streams as well as crossing the smaller tributaries. There is extensive logging and coal mining history in those mountains. Unless your driving a snowmobile, or have a vehicle with chains that you don't mind bouncing off trees your nuts to try and get a vehicle to Masten until the spring thaw. Those forestry roads have been solid ice since the Late December rain event.

 

[troutbert]

There are old narrow gauge logging rr grades all over the place, but only rarely do you see the rails.

When the rr grades were abandoned, they probably recycled the rails.

I have seen them a few times. The rails are much smaller/lighter than standard rr rails.

 

[GeneBeam]

There was a real obscurer railroad in southeastern Potter County named the Oleona RR which was owned by the Goodyear Lumber Co. and had tracks from Cross Fork to Oleona. From what I have been able to find out, is that Oleona was located at the junction of PA Rt 44 (Pine Hill Rd) and Rt 144 (Ole Bull Rd.) where the Kettle Creek Lodge & Cabins are located.

The railroad was sold to the Brooklyn Cooperage Co in 1908 and merged with the Oleona & Germania RR. Another RR named Pennsylvania Stave Co. and other two were transferred to the Brooklyn Cooperage by 1912 or 1915 and the Lackawanna Lumber Co might had something to do with all of them. I think their track were down the Kettle Creek & the Little Kettle Creek valleys.

I have a stock certificate #3 from the Oleona RR for 1 share issued to one of the officers of the RR. At one time I had stock certificate #3, #4 & #8. I keep #3 and sold the other two, one went to a guy who lived somewhere around Germania if I remember correctly.

 

[salmonoid]

GeneBeam wrote:
There was a real obscurer railroad in southeastern Potter County named the Oleona RR which was owned by the Goodyear Lumber Co. and had tracks from Cross Fork to Oleona. From what I have been able to find out, is that Oleona was located at the junction of PA Rt 44 (Pine Hill Rd) and Rt 144 (Ole Bull Rd.) where the Kettle Creek Lodge & Cabins are located.

The railroad was sold to the Brooklyn Cooperage Co in 1908 and merged with the Oleona & Germania RR. Another RR named Pennsylvania Stave Co. and other two were transferred to the Brooklyn Cooperage by 1912 or 1915 and the Lackawanna Lumber Co might had something to do with all of them. I think their track were down the Kettle Creek & the Little Kettle Creek valleys.

I have a stock certificate #3 from the Oleona RR for 1 share issued to one of the officers of the RR. At one time I had stock certificate #3, #4 & #8. I keep #3 and sold the other two, one went to a guy who lived somewhere around Germania if I remember correctly.

A number of companies existed on paper and received an authorization from the PA legislature to lay track, issued stock, but never laid a single mile of track. They were pump and dump schemes or fancy accounting maneuvers from parent companies.

Oleona as a place location still exists and it's there at the intersection of 44 and 144, but how much the Oleona RR ever existed as a real company on the ground (vs. on paper) might be debatable. Cross Fork was a major lumber town at one point, so there were definitely tracks along Kettle Creek. The Lackawanna Lumber Company operated in that area and from what I can find, they would be the parent company of the Oleona and the Oleona and Germania RR companies.

"Pennsylvania Stave Company
Cross Fork

Possibly, the Pennsylvania Stave Company ought to be considered a Clinton County concern, for the mill was just over the county line a few feet. However, most of the logs came from Potter County. Until 1899, the only industry in Cross Fork was the saw mill of the Lackawanna Lumber Company. In that year, the Brooklyn Cooperage Company bought the hardwood on the Lackawanna lands. The following year, their subsidiary, the Pennsylvania Stave Company, completed two adjacent stave mills. Their capacity is unknown, but they required the equivalent of two log trains to keep them supplied whereas their later mills at Laquin, Bradford County, and Betula, McKean County required only a single train.

The company operated a log train, using the tracks of the Lackawanna Lumber Company. Hardwood from more scattered areas was brought in by the hemlock trains to the lumber company. After Lackawanna shut down in 1908, the stave mill remained in operation for four more years. Two trains were operated during these years. As only Barnhart loader was available, one of the trains was loaded manually.

The Oleona Railroad and the Oleona and Germania Railroad, which had been used by Lackawanna to log along Kettle Creek, were sold to the American Sugar Refining Company or its subsidiary, the Brooklyn Cooperage Company. The new owners merged the two railroad corporations into the Oleona Railroad, incorporated March 7, 1908. George Frazier, president of the new railroad, was a director of American Sugar Refining."

AND

"Lumbering now moved to Kettle Creek and Little Kettle Creek. This required a railroad from Cross Fork to the mouth of Germania Brook, thirteen miles. The Oleona Railroad was incorporated May 2, 1901 to build the first eight miles to Oleona. Surprisingly, the railroad was built and owned by the Goodyears, but it had no railroad equipment, and the only trains were those of the Lackawanna Lumber Company and the Pennsylvania Stave Company. Why the Goodyears built it or why it was incorporated are unknown.

The following year on May 12, 1902, the Oleona and Germania Railroad was incorporated. Its charter called for a railroad five miles long from Oleona to Germania Brook. The railroad was built and owned by the Lackawanna Lumber Company, but it owned no equipment."

Source: Whining Saws and Squealing Flanges, Thomas T. Taber III, book No. 6 in the series Logging Railroad Era of Lumbering in Pennsylvania (typos are of my doing).

 

[salmonoid]

wbranch wrote:
There are narrow gage RR tracks along Muddy Creek in York County, PA.

Those are from the Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad (affectionately called the Ma & Pa).

http://www.abandonedrails.com/maryland-and-pennsylvania-railroad

 

[salmonoid]

troutbert wrote:
There are old narrow gauge logging rr grades all over the place, but only rarely do you see the rails.

When the rr grades were abandoned, they probably recycled the rails.

I have seen them a few times. The rails are much smaller/lighter than standard rr rails.

Had some trouble tracking exactly when I took this but it was 2010. It's time to revisit to see how it is faring.

What I never ultimately determined is if this was original rail on original grade, or if it was pulled up at one point, buried in a hillside at a later point, and then exposed by the small gullywasher stream.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

50 or so years ago, the old railroad tracks were still in that went along Penns Creek when I used to often camp at the Poe Paddy Campground. I don’t remember seeing any trains running there at that time, but there may have been (I was concentrating too much on the fishing at the time.)

I met an old guy back then, who was probably as old then as I am now, and talked to him frequently around the campfire at night. He owned some undeveloped woodlands next to the campground. He said when he was a youngster his father and he would ride the train to get in there. He said when they wanted to go home they’d put out a flag beside the tracks and the train would stop to pick them up.

I won’t tell you how big the trout were that he said they sometimes caught back when he was a youngster, which may now be 100 years ago (I think he may have exaggerated some!) but I will tell you that those fish would have been larger than most any caught there today. True or false, we may never know for sure.

Back in the mid-1960’s when I was a student at Penn State I remember riding my Honda 90cc Trail bike from State College along RT 322 to the Boy Scout camp at the top of the Seven Mountains, then riding to Poe Paddy. At the parking lot just above the old railroad tunnel, I rode my bike up river right beside the railroad tracks. I may have gone all the way to Coburn before getting back on the road, but can’t remember for sure how far I went, then rode back to State College. I think they’ve removed at least one, and maybe more(?) of the railroad bridges that were there back then. I bet I could have made the deans list more often if it weren’t for spending afternoons like that instead of studying.

 

[GeneBeam]

Seems like we are using the same guy for our research as all my information come from Railroads of Pennsylvania and Atlas by Thomas T Taber.
I use this book and other a lot for my research as I collect old railroad stock certificates.

 

[Floggingtrout]

I remember years back a trout stamp with a stocking train on it. Thought it was cool.

 

[CRB]

North Western PA
Forest County and Warren County, PA Logging History
http://www.randgust.com/wd1.htm

 

[blitzinstripes]

I love the scenic railroad bridges on the yellow breeches, little J, and the old narrow gauge at Muddy Creek. Something very nostalgic about them, that slows me down and makes me imagine the rivers in an earlier time. Norman MacLean kind of stuff.

 

[salvelinus]

Floggingtrout wrote:
I remember years back a trout stamp with a stocking train on it. Thought it was cool.

1999 trout stamp. The railcar was named Susquehanna. The stamp depicted the train on a bridge over Penns Creek.

 

[salmonoid]

salvelinus wrote:

Floggingtrout wrote:
I remember years back a trout stamp with a stocking train on it. Thought it was cool.

1999 trout stamp. The railcar was named Susquehanna. The stamp depicted the train on a bridge over Penns Creek.

Had to lift this from Ebay - surprised I can't find a better copy somewhere.

Maybe the item being sold once belonged to a board member?

 

[DaveKile]

salmonoid wrote:

salvelinus wrote:

Floggingtrout wrote:
I remember years back a trout stamp with a stocking train on it. Thought it was cool.

1999 trout stamp. The railcar was named Susquehanna. The stamp depicted the train on a bridge over Penns Creek.

Had to lift this from Ebay - surprised I can't find a better copy somewhere.

Maybe the item being sold once belonged to a board member?

I just tossed out a pile of my old fishing and hunting licenses. Now I wish I would have kept them to see If I had the 1999 train.

 

[salvelinus]

My buddy gifted me a tin sign of the 1999 trout stamp print. I don't know where he got it, I only ever saw the art prints. There was also an HO gauge rail car.

 

[SmoothOperator]

dkile wrote:

salmonoid wrote:

salvelinus wrote:

Floggingtrout wrote:
I remember years back a trout stamp with a stocking train on it. Thought it was cool.

1999 trout stamp. The railcar was named Susquehanna. The stamp depicted the train on a bridge over Penns Creek.

Had to lift this from Ebay - surprised I can't find a better copy somewhere.

Maybe the item being sold once belonged to a board member?

I just tossed out a pile of my old fishing and hunting licenses. Now I wish I would have kept them to see If I had the 1999 train.

I have the framed picture they offered that year.....Also has a trout stamp from that year in it...... The bridge looks like the now "foot bridge" at the tunnel in Poe Valley