Timber Run Ins - 2016

[vanorvis]

I use to spend a lot of time in the ANF in my younger days. Fishing the mountain streams for "natives" as we always called them. Heard a lot of people talk about rattlers and someone was always saying to "be careful" in that area there is rattlers around. But I never seen one or really ever remember talking to anyone who seen one. We were mostly in Warren & Forest County, maybe to far north. I'm not saying there not there, just never ran into one.

 

[JF_]

I came across this one 16 years ago, crossing the road above Cherry Run after it turns away from the road.

Sorry for the small size...I'll have to find a better version.

 

[bigslackwater]

Me too.
Wish I could see more of them. It's a rare treat.

I live in SCPA and spend most of my mountain time in Michaux SF or Catoctin where timbers are less common than upstate. Neverthelss, they're pretty common in these areas in particular spots around den sites. . . but I can go years without seeing one.

Even when I go looking for 'em, they are very elusive - sometimes I think I'm chasing reptile ghosts. I've still never seen one in Adams County and I've been fishing and hiking here for the better part of forty years. It's part of the timber rattlesnake mystique.

I'm in the same area and have never seen a rattlesnake in the wild. ...and I'm in the woods a lot!! One of my friends took a picture of one on the appalachain Trail heading up to chimney rocks last year. The same summer I heard other reports of rattlers in the same area. Another friend living on the border of Michaux found one in his garage. I'd say they are making a comeback but still not very numerous or they are hard to find. It is very rocky in michaux. Lots of places to hide.

 

[lineman]

They are fairly common in the N/C counties. If you're not looking for them specifically, you probably won't see many.
If you want to find one, the weather is right, and you know where to look, they aren't particularly hard to find.

 

[franklin]

Interesting facts on PA Timber rattlers.

http://www.satc-hike.org/documents/rattlesnakes-in-pennsylvania.pdf

 

[salmonoid]

I'm thankful that rattlers buzz in the dark. At my parents' cabin in Mifflin County a number of years ago, my wife went over to our car to get out a jug of water well after the sun had set. She called me over, because she heard some rustling in the leaves, which she thought might be a raccoon. As soon as I was within earshot, I immediately recognized the buzz of a rattler and told her to step away from the car. The snake was laying just under the back wheel of the car. It ambled off up over the bank from there.

I was with sarce a few years ago south of State College and we were fishing a small brookie stream. A woman came down the path and said that she had just spotted a brown snake in the rocks at some place up the trail. I was on high alert on the way upstream, but we never saw the snake. But assuming she did see a brown snake, I'm inclined to think it was a rattler.

I generally do not care for snakes; they tend to startle me and that probably stems from an incident I had when I was a five-year old. My parents were clearing a lot to build a house and had amassed a huge brush pile in the middle of where the house would eventually go. We were inspecting the work one Sunday afternoon and what I think now was probably a five-lined skink charged me (at least in the mind of a five-year old), out of the brush pile. I was absolutely terrified and ran away bawling.

But, for some reason, rattlesnakes fascinate me. They don't invoke the same startled reaction from me that other snakes do. The variety of patterns and colorations that exist are reminiscent of the variety that exists in wild brook and brown trout populations. I've encountered them at cabins, under rocks, lying alongside a stream a foot from the edge of the bank, along trails, lying under a rock on a piece of bedrock in a stream, and randomly in the woods, but have never once felt threatened by them. I've encountered them in Lycoming, Mifflin, Potter, and Sullivan counties so far.

The best map I could find on their current distribution in PA was from the PFBC.

 

[riverwhy]

Thanks for the map as I was just wondering about the range. Obviously they are not found everywhere in that range due to urban and agricultural land use. Just curious about the patterns. Any explanations for them other than mountains being present? Any found in the broader valleys at all? Why none in northern McKean and Potter or Southern Clearfield and most of Cambria? I suspect more agriculture on the plateaus? Strip mining a factor?
Where is the most unlikely spot any of you have seen them?

 

[dc410]

I love seeing timber rattlers. I usually bump into one or two a year as my work puts me in the woods a lot of the time. I haven't spotted one yet this year but here is a photo of a gorgeous northern Berks County rattler that I ran into on the Blue Mountain from last year. I might see my first 2016 rattler tomorrow, as I'll be working in Perry County for the day.

 

[franklin]

This thread got me to watching some You tube videos on Timber Rattlers in PA. Some of these guys who hunt snakes will go into areas with lush mountain laurel and rocks and find four, five and six snakes in a acre or so. I'm snake aware when hiking in the woods but now I'm going to be even more aware. Many of these snakes didn't buzz but simply froze until they were picked up with tongs. I'm guessing many of us hike by a number of snakes that we never knew were there.

 

[pcray1231]

These snake hunters, though, are targeting specific areas. Either den sites, or high use sunning areas near a den site. And at times of year when they are concentrated in such places.

Rattler populations are very non-uniform. Big areas with virtually none, then a whole bunch in a small area.

There are a few dozens of dens in PA. I've never seen a great estimate for exactly how many, but >50, and

 

[Swattie87]

My encounters have been in Potter, Clinton, Schuylkill, Mifflin, and Centre counties. Better than half of them have been in one specific drainage…partly because I fish it several times per year, but also I think Rattlers CAN become pretty locally abundant. Meaning there’s areas in their range where they seemingly are absent, and there are areas where there are very good numbers of them. They’re definitely not spread out evenly amongst their range. This watershed where I’ve had numerous sightings appears to be one of those abundant areas…I’m averaging just shy of one sighting per year there, based on 2 or 3 outings per year. I’m not sure what the dynamics are behind this…habitat and food probably.

I’ve seen all of mine in late Spring or Summer near the bottom of stream valleys, and in one case swimming across Penns Creek…I didn’t believe it when I heard a couple guys upstream of me yell “Rattler” then start scrambling out of the water as something was swimming across the creek. Walked up, and sure enough there was a Rattler on the bank, still half in the water. I think seeing them down in stream valleys is more a function of me spending more of my time there fishing than that actually being the best place to spot them. I don’t spend near as much time up on ridgelines unless it’s part of the hike to get a stream. Most of my sightings have been on exposed rock or gravel bars, with some type of woody debris or rock crevice nearby for shelter. I’m extra cautious in these areas now. They’ve all been “rogue” sightings, just a single snake each time. I think the best place to find them in numbers is actually up higher on ridgelines in areas of exposed rock outcroppings, or in or near talus or boulder fields.

In at least three of the cases, including the one above in this thread, I came easily within one step of them before seeing them. In all of my sightings, none of them initially moved or rattled until someone touched them or tried to move them. In several cases, the snake never moved at all.

The first few times I saw one I remember my heart pumping and getting a bit of a charge out of it…mostly I think from me just not knowing what to expect from them. But after being around them enough, I don’t have that reaction any more. They’re not gonna chase after you and hunt you down. IMO in order to get bit you either need to unknowingly step on or otherwise touch one, or you need to be purposely agitating it. I wear knee high gaiters for this reason…I can’t always see where I put my feet given the forest undergrowth and I want the extra bit of insurance. As far as snakes in PA go though, they’re by far the most docile species I’ve encountered…not just venomous snakes, but in general. Harmless Northern Water Snakes and even Garters can be absolute jerks. There’s a reason why they use Timbers for most Rattlesnake gimmick shows and it’s their relatively relaxed demeanor. As long as you give them even just a little space, they won’t bother you.

 

[franklin]

pcray1231 wrote:
These snake hunters, though, are targeting specific areas. Either den sites, or high use sunning areas near a den site. And at times of year when they are concentrated in such places.

Rattler populations are very non-uniform. Big areas with virtually none, then a whole bunch in a small area.

There are a few dozens of dens in PA. I've never seen a great estimate for exactly how many, but >50, and

 

[lineman]

pcray1231 wrote:
There are a few dozens of dens in PA. I've never seen a great estimate for exactly how many, but >50, and

 

[724flyfishing]

Lineman- I know 12 den sites off the top of my head, between Westmoreland County and Cameron/Elk County. I read they had to move part of the ATV trail in Marienville because it was disrupting a den, so that's 13 confirmed 100% for sure. I've only been doing this for two years now. I've explored a little bit of the Chestnut Ridge, and maybe .01% of the Quehanna Wilds area, so I think 100 den sites would be a safe minimum assumption.

 

[lineman]

724, interesting info. that I never heard before and makes good sense. I don't hunt them, I just live, work and recreate among them.

I can tell you as you gain more experience hunting and looking for them that the Quehanna Wild Area will be a more than worthwhile stop for finding rattlers.

A little story from my youth (keyword: story) from the wooded area that was to become Interstate 80. From Brookville in Jefferson county to S.B. Elliott state park in Elk/Clearfield county. The men that did the excavating in the late 60's-early 70's told tales of the dozens of snake dens they dug up and snakes they ran over. Brockway, Treasure Lake, which is north of DuBois, and Penfield were allegedly the den areas.

The operators and mechanics used to tell of how they had to give their machine a good once over before climbing on or getting under it, especially on a cool summer morning. Take it for what it's worth, just old stories.

 

[Mike]

Stepping on the log could be as bad a stepping over said log. T rattlesnakes assume the Reinert Position, coiled at the base of a log with head resting on the side of the log and facing upward, lying in wait for rodents to use the top of the log for a forest floor highway. It is a very efficient feeding strategy because the rodents utilize logs as pathways statistically significantly more than the surrounding forest's floor. All revealed by Pennsylvania T rattler telemetry work and smoke paper work used to document rodent activity areas.

 

[troutbert]

Mike wrote:

...and smoke paper work used to document rodent activity areas.

What is that?

 

[purplewoolly]

That map confirms what the locals told us around my dads camp above Coudersport; that there are no rattlesnakes north of route 6. No idea why that wouldn't hold true for neighboring Tioga county.

 

[rrt]

I hope you guys know how unusual your feelings are about rattlesnakes. I would not purposely kill one that was not threatening me, but if one was around human habitation where it could bite somebody, I would feel differently.

I know a guy who ran over three of them in one night, and he believed he was doing something good. Like most of you, I would have avoided running over them if possible. But, I think that people who would avoid hitting them are a minority.

With few people actually in the woods during the summer, I imagine there are more rattlers out there than we realize. Lots of room in the big mountains of n/c PA where they can live pretty much unmolested.

 

[PocketWater]

You guys that see them can help this group with their survey. You need to create an account and just put up a picture, then state the county and type of terrain. Don't have to put down real detailed info so people go looking.

http://www.paherpsurvey.org