Tiger Trout Information

Tried a small trib. to Muncy Creek in Sullivan County on my cabin's property to see what I could catch. Water was low and I ended up with a total of 16 brookies (no tigers) and a small brown, all under 5". Went subsurface the whole time with size 18 olive HE nymphs. I heard another story of a person who had recently caught a tiger out of the same stream, but further down than I fished (on public land). The holes were maybe 6" deep and about a foot long. It amazes me how they can live in such little water.. Good luck to you all!
 
shenandoah np online, brook trout page: "The progeny resulting from male brook trout and female brown trout are known generally as "tiger trout". Within the few park streams where both species coexist, tiger trout are occasionally encountered. Interestingly, tiger trout observations seem to occur during periods when the brown trout population is depressed creating conditions where female brown trout are more likely to be encountered and spawned by male brook trout."

(tigers are super rare, but as a matter of rampant speculation, the last few snowy winters may have lead to acid snowmelt shocks in the streams in the spring. browns are less tolerant of acidity than brookies, so the brown trout population in streams with both species could tend to be depressed now... btw I have only ever caught one tiger :) )
 
wbt: "Tried a small trib. to Muncy Creek in Sullivan County on my cabin's property" .. "It amazes me how they can live in such little water.."

the muncy valley may tend to be good for trout. its bedrock is catskill and huntley, which may buffer the effects of our acidic rain better than the burgoon bedrock just east of muncy. for ex, there is more low buffering burgoon bedrock just east of muncy in the east branch fishing creek area...

this is only from maps of course, I have fished very little in muncy tribs due to limited public land there...
 
k-bob wrote:
shenandoah np online, brook trout page: "The progeny resulting from male brook trout and female brown trout are known generally as "tiger trout". Within the few park streams where both species coexist, tiger trout are occasionally encountered. Interestingly, tiger trout observations seem to occur during periods when the brown trout population is depressed creating conditions where female brown trout are more likely to be encountered and spawned by male brook trout."

That suggests that you are more likely to find tigers where the population is mostly brookies with just a few browns, than where the ratio is about 50/50 or where the population is mostly browns with just a few brookies.

I've caught a few tigers and saw a couple others caught, and think this probably checks out, i.e. that the tigers were in streams that held mostly brook trout, with just a few browns.

So, if you want to increase your chances of catching a tiger, you could fish a lot of those types of streams. But your chances will still be low.

And, for me at least, the novelty of tiger trout quickly wore off. The first one I caught I was pretty excited and took pictures, etc. After that, it didn't seem that interesting. I'd rather catch a 10 inch native brook trout than a 5 inch tiger trout.

A 10 inch native brook trout tells you something good: that the stream and brookie population are doing well enough to produce a brook trout 10 inches long, which is a larger, older brook trout than you typically catch.

If you catch a tiger trout, what does that tell you, what does it mean? It tells you that brown trout are present in that little brookie stream.

 
muncy seems more trouty than east branch fishin creek, see image. (blue lines are nat repro). probably the geology: huntley and catskill in mncy, more burgoon in ebfc. (can see geo on dcnr mapping)
 

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tb fwiw only tiger I ever caught was in stream I thought was all brookies
 
salmonoid wrote:


My feeling is that while tigers may exhibit hybrid vigor, it won't be any more vigorous than a starved, opportunistic feeding brookie on a small freestoner.

Yea, hard to imagine more vigorous than that. But certainly more vigorous than one parent, and at least as vigorous as the other.;-)
 
Exactly TB,

the stream we get them from is full of natives, and beavers. The natives here get up to about 14" and they live in the deep cool pools. the ratio is at least 10/1. the stream was stocked a long time ago, just with browns and they seem to have rooted well with the natvies.
still looking for that wild tiger that breaks a ruler, all of ours were just under 10"
 
Hmmm. So combining some of what Salmonid said with this. I'm guessing the beaver dams provide greater fluctuation in temperature in those dams which may cause additional overlap in spawning cycles and thus increase the chances for the cross?

I'm just trying to think outside the box.
 
could be FD, I mean these are way up in the headwaters. The stream itself is about 7' wide for the most part with bigger holes, but it is completely void of trout except for in the "lakes" that the beavers have created. I am not joking haha, Id say the biggest pool is probably around 12 acres, and about 12' deep. last time we were there we caught around 30 fish from it, 3 browns and 25 plus brookies. we havent gotten any tigers in about 2 years, but 3 years ago, we had caught 4 which only confirms the shot in the dark sort of mentality as far as catching these rare fish.
 
I've caught thousands of brookies and browns and only 1 wild tiger. It's literally a once in a lifetime type of fish, even if you are routinely fishing where they may be (unless you are somewhere they stock them).

And the difficulty in catching them is not at all related to strategy, as in time of day, fly choice, technique, etc. They are easy to catch. Finding them is the tough part. Specifically targeting them is likely an impossible task, as even if you do, it may take hundreds of outings before you come across one.

I agree, if they were routinely catching 2 or 3 per day, those fish were stocked. Being on the natural repro list does not mean the fish commission doesn't allow stocking. You are thinking of the class A list, and even then, they make exceptions, in addition to the illegal stockings which do happen. If on the natural repro list, it CAN be stocked, and even if the PFBC doesn't do it, that doesn't mean some club doesn't. Especially if you were talking private water. And most stocked tigers do indeed come from club stockings.

Here is my lone wild tiger:

IMG_0550_zpstbbqhu0d.jpg
 
I’ve heard of both scenarios producing Tigers:

The one I caught was from a 50/50ish mix stream, and I know of another fish (that was caught twice) from another 50/50 type stream…if anything this second stream actually leans a little heavy to the Browns.

I also know of two scenarios (k-bob’s and another) of a Tiger showing up in a stream that was thought to be all Brookies…which makes sense potentially too…the odd rogue female Brown gets in there somehow and has nothing but male Brookies to spawn with. pcray’s may have also fit into this group.

I’m not sure which of those is more likely mathematically to produce a Tiger…the stream with just one female Brown, but all Brookies for it to spawn with, or the one with lots of both. Either way, it’s a rare deal.
 
It's all pure luck. Trying to target them specifically is a fool's errand. Even if you're fishing a stream that is well mixed, or has a million males to fertilize one broad, it's still a long shot. I caught mine on an EHC as well. But it was the right place at the right time. Catching one was a thousand miles out of my thoughts.
 
I only know one place that you can consistently catch tigers. sorry not saying where anymore. but a few in bucks county know where.
 
If there is one present that is wild, wouldn't that seem to indicate at the very least more are likely? Fish deposit hundreds or thousands of eggs. The odds of just one hatching seem low. Actually surviving seems like it would be more difficult once they hatch and have to avoid all kinds of predators.
 
If there is one present that is wild, wouldn't that seem to indicate at the very least more are likely?

No.

Yes, a single trout can lay hundreds or thousands of eggs. On average in the wild, maybe 40 or 50 actually hatch and 4 or 5 make it to the fingerling stage and 1 or 2 make it to adulthood (catchable size). That's normal. i.e. a brown mating with a brown or a brookie with a brookie. And it fits with the rules of populations, i.e. in any stable wild population, each member will, on average, replace itself once in it's lifetime, all other offspring will fail to reach breeding age. Otherwise the population would grow.

Now, in the case of tiger trout, this is a hybrid between not only 2 different species, but 2 entirely different genera. They have a different # of chromosomes. The % of the eggs that hatch is MUCH lower. So first, it's rare that a brown female gets fertilized by a brookie male in the wild. And even when that does happen, actually producing a single offspring that'll grow to catchable size is a longshot, despite there being a thousand or more eggs and thus "chances" for it to happen.

Things are obviously easier in a hatchery in laboratory conditions, both for single species as well as hybrids. For a single species, they can get up to 80-90% of the eggs to hatch by ensuring ALL eggs get fertilized, giving them optimal temps and substrate, etc. I don't know what % make it to adulthood but it likewise would be much better than in the wild.

In the case of tiger trout, they "heat shock" the eggs. It has to be fairly soon (within a half hour or so) after fertilization, with temperatures north of 80 F for a prescribed amount of time. It forces a mutation in the egg just short of killing it, producing the extra chromosomes, and thus allowing the % that hatch to be considerably better than it'd be in the wild, though still not equal to a non-hybrid.

To put it in perspective, most PA streams with wild brookies actually do have at least a token population of browns. The PFBC electroshocks streams routinely, and thus handle thousands upon thousands of wild trout, and each year they turn up only a small handful of wild tigers statewide.

The Nale brothers (FrankTroutAngler on this forum, but the name always stirs controversy) fish suitable streams commonly, catch obscene numbers of fish, and document them well. They've reported tiger catch rates in the range of 0.01% from appropriate streams. i.e. even if you are targeting the right places, you can expect about 1 wild tiger for every 10,000 wild trout you catch. And I'd say that's about right, as I've caught exactly 1 wild tiger myself and my total lifetime catch is probably somewhere between 5 and 20 thousand wild trout, the majority of which are in places that COULD have tigers.

In summary, if you wanna catch them, target stocked ones. If you wanna catch a wild one, well, targeting them is pretty useless, but keep fishing for wild trout and maybe someday you'll win the lottery.
 
Pcray, the creek is on private property, and it happens to be MY private property. The chances of somebody stocking any fish in it are very slim. Why would someone bother walking down a creek with no trespassing signs everywhere to throw in trout? By the way, that is a very beautiful fish you got in the picture. Sandfly, are you talking about wild or stocked?
 
Wildbrowntrout wrote:
So, unsurprisingly none of the flies were similar except for the two elk hair caddis... For the wild tigers, when is the best time of year to fish for them, and should I fish a specific hatch or just a streamer? Luckily, I fish a stream on private property with no fishing pressure and a lot of brookies and browns. Also I have heard many stories of some of the older guys that used to fish there with lots of luck, 2-3 tigers every trip. Thanks guys, and tight lines!
Since they cannot reproduce, you cannot even count on catching them in the same stream from year to year, this makes them one of the rarest wild trout you can catch. I don't think that any particular time of the year will stand out as being better for catching them, but for what it's worth both of mine were caught during the fall.
 
Wildbrowntrout wrote:
Pcray, the creek is on private property, and it happens to be MY private property. The chances of somebody stocking any fish in it are very slim. Why would someone bother walking down a creek with no trespassing signs everywhere to throw in trout? By the way, that is a very beautiful fish you got in the picture. Sandfly, are you talking about wild or stocked?

They may not have been stocked from your property, but could easily have been stocked above or below it and washed down or swam up to your private property. Fish ignore No Trespassing signs.
 
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