Throw out the Junk...

[gulfgreyhound]

Ever notice that a beat up fly continues to catch fish after many hook ups? Why? Maybe nature isn't perfect hence the fact that a beat up fly gets crushed?
Why not fish the "rejects"? from your bench? :-? :-? :-?
Jets askin? GG

 

[afishinado]

Those above that believe not fishing junk flies all the time equates to not catching fish, next time out spend a little time to observe what's actually happening on the stream before fishing like a wrote in the OP, and you will likely find you end up catching a lot more fish.

It's okay to resort to the rubbish as a change of pace at times, but keep the junk in the truck and start to open your eyes and expand your horizons before taking out the trash.

 

[jbewley]

Not sure I completely understand what you are saying here. All the fly's you call "junk" do, in fact, represent some type of aquatic life that lives in the stream. So, if we look under rocks and such and find no worms, then we should not fish them, because the fish are not eating them, even if they are?????

Jim

 

[afishinado]

jbewley wrote:
Not sure I completely understand what you are saying here. All the fly's you call "junk" do, in fact, represent some type of aquatic life that lives in the stream. So, if we look under rocks and such and find no worms, then we should not fish them, because the fish are not eating them, even if they are?????

Jim

Most of this is with tongue in cheek, but fish the way you want.

All I'm saying is consider using your powers of observation, and you are likely to see a myriad of things happening on the stream at any given time. This gives you many choices of places and fish to target, methods to employ, as well as flies to choose.

If after all that you feel choosing to fish a rubber squirmy wormy under a bobber because it's the way you fish and it matches aquatic worms found in the stream, then go right ahead, have fun.

 

[ryansheehan]

afishinado wrote:

jbewley wrote:
Not sure I completely understand what you are saying here. All the fly's you call "junk" do, in fact, represent some type of aquatic life that lives in the stream. So, if we look under rocks and such and find no worms, then we should not fish them, because the fish are not eating them, even if they are?????

Jim

Most of this is with tongue in cheek, but fish the way you want.

All I'm saying is consider using your powers of observation, and you are likely to see a myriad of things happening on the stream at any given time. This gives you many choices of places and fish to target, methods to employ, as well as flies to choose.

If after all that you feel choosing to fish a rubber squirmy wormy under a bobber because it's the way you fish and it matches aquatic worms found in the stream, then go right ahead, have fun.

I'm really a drift over fly guy. Almost all the streams I frequent the trout will take a well presented fly. If they are feeding on top my first thing I put on ninety percent of the time is a parachute adams. If I'm nymphing it will be a midge pattern. Most of the time I don't have to switch to something "closer" to a natural.

Many years ago I alsked a guide what they were taking and he replied "a good drift", that really stuck with me. I've thought about alot of the posts in this thread and I think fly fishing comes down to this for me, I love the challenge of getting a good drift. Does a certain fly increase my chances of getting a take, perhaps, but that's not what fly fishing is for me. This thread has really made examine why I love to fly fish, that's the closest I can come to quantifying it. My father would often get to the river and "fly fish" with no fly, for him it was all about the cast. I think we each are looking for something a little different out on the stream.

 

[jifigz]

I do not agree that conventional tackle will always outfish fly tackle. There are definitely many times, especially for trout, that our nymphs will out fish a spinner, etc..

Also, I like to fish a variety of methods too realistic patterns, dry flies of all types, and "junk" flies. It all depends on what I feel is the most practical and productive way to fish the waters I'm fishing..I make these judgements from being obsessed with fishing since I was about 6 and the knowledge that I've learned along the way.

Now the real question....is the woolly bugger a junk fly? I sure hope not, but I could see how it could be lumped in there..

 

[redietz]

jifigz wrote:
Now the real question....is the woolly bugger a junk fly? I sure hope not, but I could see how it could be lumped in there..

FWIW, Russ Blessing invented it as a hellgrammite imitation.

 

[ColdBore]

jbewley wrote:

All the fly's you call "junk" do, in fact, represent some type of aquatic life that lives in the stream. So, if we look under rocks and such ....

Maybe I haven't looked under enough rocks, but it's been a while since I've seen any of these, "representing some type of aquatic life", in any stream that I've fished.

 

[ColdBore]

I'm not a hardcore purist or perfectionist, but I don't think the above mop flies represent any real, living creature.

Do they work? Sure. But probably based more on a curiosity instinct, not because they think they represent that real bug that they had last night for dinner.

 

[ColdBore]

While I still don't have any desire to tie on a m... m.... m.... mop fly (!), I did find this to be some interesting reading regarding them.

(I'm not endorsing or suggesting you buy from the company, I'm just linking to what I thought was some good info on their site)

https://mopflies.com/pages/faqs

 

[ryansheehan]

It's funny the first time I saw a mop fly I thought it was a Caterpillar imitation. I don't read too much into the color of most flies but those do stick out.

 

[krayfish2]

To each their own. Never owned or fished a greenie weenie, mop fly, royal wulff, etc. Are 'junk' patterns effective? In the hands of a good angler, it may put a few extra fish in the net that were indifferent to flies matching food in the drift. About the wildest I have is a prince which took years for me to accept.

If I can't catch matching what's hatching or happening subsurface, I'd prefer to go fishless rather than tie on junk. I view some of them as silly or a crutch. But as I said, to each their own and the goal is to enjoy your time on the water. If you measure a good day by fish numbers, maybe you are missing the point.

Now that I've ruffled some feathers, streamers are a little different. You are matching a baitfish, leech or juvenile trout for the most part. Some of the modern patterns are wild, wacky, over the top, etc. Have I used or own some of that junk? Yes. I look as many streamer bites as aggravation bites. A pattern might be used to be more visible, create a particular swimming action or to be the most offensive. Other times, you mimic a dying baitfish, fleeing baitfish, leeches or eels so several color combos are needed.

 

[poopdeck]

I'm having a hard time making the connection between junk flies and not observing what's going on around you. What doees this even mean, that purists see more, feel more and become one with nature better then someone fishing a green weenie. What mindset must one have to utter such nonsense. It doesn't take a 6th sense to see a mayfly and tie an adams on. I use to catch the much heralded native brook trout on a piece of yarn on a jig that I made myself when I was ten. Why at age 60 does catching a trout on a hatch matching fly any better of an experience then the yarn caught trout. We should all be like a ten year old and enjoy fishing for catching fish your own way without self elevating our Brand of fishing over others.

 

[jifigz]

Maybe people get offended because junk flies ruin the lofty opinion people hold regarding trout and the precise, delicate presentations that it takes to fool them. Maybe it brings us back down to realizing that they are just one more stupid fish and aren't all that tricky to catch and 99% of the time the difficulty in catching them probably coincides with weather pattern changes, etc.

I've got no problems fishing anything. Sometimes matching the hatch is fun, sometimes throw whatever on and have a good time..I think my lack of concern is stems from my long roots of being a serious bass fisherman who used only lures/plastics. I used to frown on bait fishermen, now I couldn't care less. Plus, how many bass lures look and act like nothing natural? A lot. I think that opinion transfers to my fly fishing for trout world too.

 

[ColdBore]

Well said.

krayfish2 wrote:

.... I'd prefer to go fishless rather than tie on junk. I view some of them as silly or a crutch. But as I said, to each their own and the goal is to enjoy your time on the water. If you measure a good day by fish numbers, maybe you are missing the point.

 

[supervdl]

jifigz wrote:
Maybe people get offended because junk flies ruin the lofty opinion people hold regarding trout and the precise, delicate presentations that it takes to fool them. Maybe it brings us back down to realizing that they are just one more stupid fish and aren't all that tricky to catch and 99% of the time the difficulty in catching them probably coincides with weather pattern changes, etc.

I've got no problems fishing anything. Sometimes matching the hatch is fun, sometimes throw whatever on and have a good time..I think my lack of concern is stems from my long roots of being a serious bass fisherman who used only lures/plastics. I used to frown on bait fishermen, now I couldn't care less. Plus, how many bass lures look and act like nothing natural? A lot. I think that opinion transfers to my fly fishing for trout world too.

+1 well said

 

[SteveG]

I find it odd that the flies many call "junk", actually represent a number of different natural food items for trout. Sj worms imitate earthworms and aquatic worms, mop flies are passable as a caddis larvae or terrestrial grub that is washed into the water, and green weenies are a great inchworm imitation (anyone who has fished a mountain freestone stream has witnessed inchworms falling into the water). Yet no one would ever call classics like the Letort cricket, Crowe beetle, Spruce Matuka, or any Royal Coachman dry/wet/streamer a junk fly.

 

[AngryViking]

jifigz wrote:
Maybe people get offended because junk flies ruin the lofty opinion people hold regarding trout and the precise, delicate presentations that it takes to fool them. Maybe it brings us back down to realizing that they are just one more stupid fish and aren't all that tricky to catch and 99% of the time the difficulty in catching them probably coincides with weather pattern changes, etc.

I've got no problems fishing anything. Sometimes matching the hatch is fun, sometimes throw whatever on and have a good time..I think my lack of concern is stems from my long roots of being a serious bass fisherman who used only lures/plastics. I used to frown on bait fishermen, now I couldn't care less. Plus, how many bass lures look and act like nothing natural? A lot. I think that opinion transfers to my fly fishing for trout world too.

+1 nicely put

 

[MKern]

I don't throw a bunch of junk flies but it is amazing that one can pluck some hair from a passing-by cat and lash it to a hook and give it a fancy name (which is creative and innovative), but chenille on a hook (blasphemy).

 

[Eddy]

In my opinion, any of the "no junk fly" purist that use strike indicators (aka bobbers), have no room to judge.