Throw out the Junk...

[afishinado]

No problem throwing a junk fly if just catching fish without thinking much about it is your goal. Fill your fly box with green weenies, SJ worms, squirmy wormies or mop flies and have fun. Junk flies are really the fly-fishing version of just pitching out a worm or maybe a mepps spinner on a spinning rod. You’re not looking to imitate anything in particular, just cast out and wait for the tug. It works well enough. You may very well catch a load of trout. Those that believe that’s what fly-fishing is all about may have missed something along the way, but maybe not, to each to his own.

IMHO, one of the greatest things about fly-fishing, and most especially fly-fishing for trout is spending time observing the stream before just pitching in a fly. Observing anything on the water, flying in the air, hiding the bushes along the bank or maybe even just seining the stream to see what bugs are prevalent if nothing appears to be happening at the time.

With that knowledge at hand, a fly-fisher selects a fly pattern to match what is happening in nature at the time. Better yet, the ultimate challenge and the greatest satisfaction comes from is tying your own flies and patterns to match the forage and fool trout. That’s really what makes fly-fishing for trout so special. Books about such things have been written for hundreds of years, adding some history to fly-fishing and allowing the angler to learn about the fish and their forage and bank such knowledge. This knowledge along with using your observation skills on the stream allows the fly-fisher to make choices on which flies to choose as well as how and where to fish them. Your day on the stream all becomes a fascinating puzzle challenging you to solve it. And nothing is more satisfying as when you finally crack the code. In other words, it’s more about the “how” than the “how many or how big”...if you get my drift.

Or just pitch in a squirmy wormy with a mop fly dropper and load up on trout....the choice is yours.

 

[JeffP]

Speaking of junk, I hate ditching flies with minor damage yet I know I will probably never use them again. So my fly box grows and grows and its harder and harder to see what I have. I know there are somedays I am almost happy to lose flies but of course they are always the good ones!

 

[Mike]

Afish,
I see your general point, but using the SJ worm version that I use in bright red looks like three Chironomini drifting along near the bottom. Chironomini are the midge larvae that are bright red and are typically found in accumulations of leaves or in detritis in small back eddies along stream margins, just like damselfly, dragonfly, and cranefly larvae.

As for those who fish pink SJ worms constructed of the same material, these approximate the various small species of aquatic earthworms that are common in streams. Both the Chironomini and the aquatic earthworms are even more common in limestoners and organically enriched streams, such as those in urban, suburban, and agricultural areas. Fishing with the aforementioned is no worse than fishing with zebra midges, skuds, green caddis nymphs, tan caddis nymphs, yellowish Philopotamid nymphs, cress bugs, trico nymphs, small leech imitations, Baetids, Caenids, etc. All of these are typical in limestoners and nutrient enriched streams.

 

[jbewley]

The beauty of fly fishing is that it has many different aspects. Fish only on top or under or nymphs or wet flies or whatever. It can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it. As long as there is a "fly imitation" on the end of your line, then you are fly fishing. IMHO.

Jim

 

[Eddy]

I enjoy throwing "junk flies" in the winter when I'm just trying to cure the cold weather blues. I also find it useful when exploring new places to get a general idea of what's swimming in the water. Junk flies seem to be more effective for recently stocked trout when that's what I happen to be fishing for. During the late spring and summer, I pretty much exclusively throw dry flies because that's what I prefer and I know there's a decently good change of it being effective. Different strokes for different folks.

This topic brings me to an inquiry. What is everyone's personal preference on effectiveness of a San Juan Worm vs a squirmy wormy? Red, pink, green?
Edit: just saw the recent SJ/squirmy thread

 

[ryansheehan]

I truly don't understand the trash talking when it comes to san juan worms. There are all sorts of worms that get flushed into the streams especially during rain events. I don't think fishing a San Juan is any different than throwing a hopper or an ant pattern. Honestly I consider a midge pattern far more thoughtless than a San juan when I'm nymphing. Dropping a midge off my point fly is SOP. Every stream I've ever fished is loaded with midges, you can't go wrong.

To me there are all sorts of attractive patterns out there. I don't hold a mop fly in any less esteem than a royal wulff, they don't imitate anything specific yet they catch fish. I haven't really fished a mop fly or squirmy yet I'm pretty set in my ways with attractor patterns but I don't see where the hate comes from.

Afish, Love the topic by the way!

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Ryan: Yes, but can (or do) you fish the mop DRY like a Royal Wulff....with a bamboo rod....and silk lines....and cat gut leaders??

The lines between spin and fly fishing are blurred, especially with leader-only nymphing, cast plastic nymph bodies & tails, etc. Any opinions regarding the "right way" to fly fish are just that.

Regarding my opinion on "junk flies": I tie them, carry them, but rarely use them. I love the mental game of matching the whatever. Spin fishing is boring to me at this point. That's a big reason why I fly fish.

To each his/her own, though.

IMO, respect the law, respect others, and respect the resource. I would have a hard time finding fault with anyone who hit these three marks, regardless of the leader length or fly used (or kind of gear used).

 

[redietz]

ryansheehan wrote:
I truly don't understand the trash talking when it comes to san juan worms. There are all sorts of worms that get flushed into the streams especially during rain events. I don't think fishing a San Juan is any different than throwing a hopper or an ant pattern.

I agree, except that in addition to worms being flushed in, there are all sorts of aquatic annelids that are always available as trout food. Fish them is no different than fishing, say, a stonefly nymph pattern.

 

[larkmark]

One man's mopfly is another man's Cranefly larvae. Green Weenie is an inchworm or caddis larvae. That said, I rarely fish anything except dry flies and matching the hatch is definitely the most rewarding type of trout fishing for me. I have spent many a day just watching for risers and when they did not appear I simply put my rod away and went home. The older I get the more I feel that way about many things. It is the process that I enjoy as much or more than the end product.

 

[redietz]

Fly-Swatter wrote:
Ryan: Yes, but can (or do) you fish the mop DRY like a Royal Wulff....with a bamboo rod....and silk lines....and cat gut leaders??

I don't know about mop flies, but yes I have fished a green weenie dry with a bamboo rod and a silk line. And caught fish. I've also fished them on bottom with a plastic rod and plastic line. And caught fish.

OTOH, nobody has ever fished any with a cat gut leader (since leaders used to be made from silk worm gut, not cat gut.)

I was once floating the Beaverhead River in Montana with a guide. He happened to peer into junk fly box (he wanted me to fish a SJ worm.) He said, you must be from Pennsylvania. I said, "Close enough, why do say that?" He'd seen a few green weenies and said that everybody he'd ever guided from PA carried those and that he hadn't seen a single one of them catch anything on one. I asked him if the river ever had inch worms? No. Rock worm caddis? No. Then you're not matching anything the trout are used to eating.

I'm a firm believer that things like green weenies are, in fact, imitative to some extent.

 

[jbewley]

This topic brings me to an inquiry. What is everyone's personal preference on effectiveness of a San Juan Worm vs a squirmy wormy? Red, pink, green?
Edit: just saw the recent SJ/squirmy thread

I carry red and pink. I have been told that the fish are hitting them, one or the other, on a given day, but I have never caught a darn thing on one. I keep trying however. :-D

Jim

 

[jifigz]

The best part about fly fishing and fly tying is that you can lash whatever you want to a hook and try it out. I somewhat frown upon using rubber only such as a squirmy, but we use rubber on stonefly patterns and Chernobyl ants and whatnot. I might go home tonight and tie some flies with fibers from my afghans on the backs of my couches or my cat's hair. Fly tying is creative, fun, and experimental..enough said. Do what you want, fish as you want, and enjoy. Using spinning gear, use a baitcaster, or a fly rod. The way some flies are tied today they could be fished on a spinning rod since they have so much weight.

 

[Dave_W]

While I tend to like flies that imitate specific prey species (this is just a fly tying preference angle for me)... I really like SJWs and other "wormy" style junk flies.

As Mike pointed out, there are a lot of worms in a trout stream. I never realized this until I started doing kick-seine surveys more frequently a few years ago - I got a lot of earthworms and this was often in mid-stream channel, often in weeds, and not anytime close to a storm or flood event. Moreover, I would get them at all times of the year. The worms are just always there naturally and I suspect that trout pick them off the bottom under any conditions, not just higher water in spring, although this is when I really like SJWs.

The worms I'm referring to here are not the bright red midge larvae, but rather look like any typical earthworm (although they tend to be very slender and small).

 

[poopdeck]

This is hilarious! So the point of fly fishing is not to catch fish. It's to observe and throw stuff less likely to catch a fish because it matches some imaginary or conjured up definition of matching a hatch. Fish eat worms as they do bugs. What makes people think that fishing with a bug imitation is more lofty, more intelligent and a more in tune with nature way of catching a trout. I guess this is just another case of me not knowing what I'm talking about but this is funny stuff.

 

[Biggie]

I use every junk fly available because they work. SJ worms, squirmy worms, green weenies, greenie worm (being the best for me) and others. But I refuse to call an egg pattern a "glow bug" now that is going too far. :O

 

[just_jon]

Call me crazy, but I enjoy catching fish when I’m fishing.

 

[AngryViking]

Like a few others have said, I too like to throw junk and like to catch fish. When I go out I'm trying to catch fish. If I want to go out for 5 hours and not catch anything I'd go for a walk in the woods without my rod. If it works, it works. If you want to dry fly fish only, do it. If you want to use highly imitative patterns, do it. If you want to use bugs that look like nothing in the stream, do it.

It's all fly fishing as far as I'm concerned. We should be focused on conservation and passing on our knowledge not focused on which type of fly makes you a "true" fly fisherman.

 

[ColdBore]

AngryViking wrote:

Like a few others have said, I too like to throw junk and like to catch fish. When I go out I'm trying to catch fish. If I want to go out for 5 hours and not catch anything I'd go for a walk in the woods without my rod. If it works, it works. If you want to dry fly fish only, do it. If you want to use highly imitative patterns, do it. If you want to use bugs that look like nothing in the stream, do it.

It's all fly fishing as far as I'm concerned. We should be focused on conservation and passing on our knowledge not focused on which type of fly makes you a "true" fly fisherman.

This isn't meant to start an argument or anything, but, if your whole point in fishing is to catch fish, why do you flyfish? (That question can apply to more than just the quoted poster)

Lures, and obviously bait, will outcatch any fly, junk or not.

I like to catch fish as much as the next guy, but don't consider my day wasted if every fish in the stream outsmarts me some days. Sometimes, all I really care about is learning or practicing something new, in hopes of it working better for me in the future, or eliminating something that I find out obviously isn't working. I can't do that on a rodless walk in the woods.

As for everything after your first couple sentences, I totally agree.

 

[tomgamber]

"Many men go fishing all of their
lives without knowing that it
is not fish they are after."
Henry David Thoreau

 

[AngryViking]

ColdBore wrote:

AngryViking wrote:

Like a few others have said, I too like to throw junk and like to catch fish. When I go out I'm trying to catch fish. If I want to go out for 5 hours and not catch anything I'd go for a walk in the woods without my rod. If it works, it works. If you want to dry fly fish only, do it. If you want to use highly imitative patterns, do it. If you want to use bugs that look like nothing in the stream, do it.

It's all fly fishing as far as I'm concerned. We should be focused on conservation and passing on our knowledge not focused on which type of fly makes you a "true" fly fisherman.

This isn't meant to start an argument or anything, but, if your whole point in fishing is to catch fish, why do you flyfish? (That question can apply to more than just the quoted poster)

Lures, and obviously bait, will outcatch any fly, junk or not.

I like to catch fish as much as the next guy, but don't consider my day wasted if every fish in the stream outsmarts me some days. Sometimes, all I really care about is learning or practicing something new, in hopes of it working better for me in the future, or eliminating something that I find out obviously isn't working. I can't do that on a rodless walk in the woods.

As for everything after your first couple sentences, I totally agree.

I fly fish because it requires more focus and attention rather than chucking out a lure and reeling it in while looking around. Requires more effort and concentration and often takes you to better locations than bait fishing does.

There are days I get shut out and that's fine, I've most likely been on a stretch a stream that few people venture to or I'm trying to see if a new small stream holds any fish.

I did the conventional tackle thing for awhile and still do once and awhile when I go with my dad. It just doesn't have the appeal that fly fishing does and all the elements that come along with it (I always tie my own flies and dove right into it when I started fly fishing)

I fish to catch fish and I use fly fishing and the places I go as a stress relief from work and the worries of the world.