Tandem Rig Tangles

[Upstream]

I fish a two nymph setup most of the time. I use a very long leader as recommended for Euro-nymphing. I tie a 4-6 ft. length of 4x flourocarbon to the tippet ring at the end of the sighter material. Then I usually tie on a 2-3 ft. length of 5x flouro for the point fly. The tag end of the 4x is left 6 in. long for the dropper. I usually fish 2 bead head nymphs with the heavier one on the point. I usually add one or two bb sized shot above the point fly depending on conditions. Sometimes, when I catch a very active fish on the dropper / upper fly, the rest of the rig becomes a tangled mess, wrapped around the leader above the dropper. Usually it is best to cut it off and rebuild. There are days when this doesn't happen at all. Then, there are days when it happens more than once. Anyone else experience this? Any suggestions to improve the situation?
Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

 

[theoriginalnickyp]

Maybe shorten the dropper? My dropper is usually no longer than 2-3 inches. I use a Davy knot for tying onto tag droppers, it leaves very little tag material so you can tie it onto short droppers. No real insight on how to prevent it permanently but when I do get tangled I can usually clip off just the flies and get my leader fixed. Much easier to just tie the nymphs back on than retie the entire rig. Fluoro usually de-tangles much easier than nylon mono.

 

[edhank]

The split shot does something to the dynamics of the rig. I use split shot very little anymore, and the tangles when catching a fish on the top fly have gone away. I can catch fish on the dropper all day and not have one tangle.

Back in the day when I used split shot, I would cut the flies off, cut the tippet off and tie on fresh tippet. Or if I could un-knot the mess, I would do that, and wait for the next tangle. I've tried shorter droppers, longer droppers, nothing seemed to matter.

FWIW........De

 

[drakeking412]

There is a few errors in your rigging. First ditch the splitshot alltogether in every and all situations. Make your flies heavier using tungsten beads and the new firehole weight system if you need it to be that heavy but honestly the heaviest bead I use is a 3.3mm tungsten and a 4.0 for blown out or steelhead waters in any water of PA.

Second shorten your entire tippet rigging. For example to fish a 675 cfs penns I use a ~3' section of 4.5x then triple surgeon knot to a 14-18" section of 5x going down to my point leaving me with a solid 12-16" gap between my dropper and point. Don't forget you can sink the sighter if necessary especially in heavier dirtier water.

Like others have said also shorten up that dropper. A 4" dropper is plenty to get that nymph moving in the water and much more is just too many tangles I've found. There is a George Daniel trick though to keep that dropper flared out, tie an overhand knot DIRECTLY at the base of the dropper and that will kick the dropper tag to a 90 angle. I rarely do this I just tend to tie a bit shorter dropper and fix it every fifth cast. I'm usually cleaning off caddis tubes or something else anyhow so no issue.

edit: you almost have to use flouro as well. try arc double agent, it isnt bad. otherwise get some trouthunter and dont look at the price

 

[PennKev]

My advice reflects what has already been said: Weight on the point. Shorten up your droppers. A finger length dropper is almost always long enough. As for tangles when landing fish, yeah that's just part of fishing. It happens. Tying knots and re-rigging is part of the game regardless of how you fish. Get good at it and it's only a couple minutes lost. Using more sophisticated nymph rigs is we'll worth the extra time spent rigging.

 

[Swattie87]

I once asked this same question and got a chorus of responses explaining in no specific terms that I just sucked. Which, although not as informative as the discussion in this thread, was largely (and still is) correct.

Good to see the OP is thought higher of around these parts than me.

 

[SteveG]

Stick to just bead heads, or split shot with unweighted flies. Every hinge point you add (weight) increases your chance of tangles.

beyond the rigging, keep an eye on your casting mechanics as well. Lobbing, and casting weight, are two different things.

 

[Upstream]

Thank you guys for the great advise. It all makes good sense and I guess I need to start paying attentions to some of the details that I have read about but never really took seriously. Ditch the split shot and use Tungsten beads for the heavier weight. I'll give it a try.

 

[PennKev]

Upstream wrote:
Ditch the split shot and use Tungsten beads for the heavier weight. I'll give it a try.

Nah, hang on to it. Tungsten bead flies are all the rage, but split shot definitely has a place in nymphing out in the real world where competition rules don't apply.

 

[Dave_W]

PennKev wrote:
My advice reflects what has already been said: Weight on the point. Shorten up your droppers. A finger length dropper is almost always long enough. As for tangles when landing fish, yeah that's just part of fishing. It happens. Tying knots and re-rigging is part of the game regardless of how you fish. Get good at it and it's only a couple minutes lost. Using more sophisticated nymph rigs is we'll worth the extra time spent rigging.

I'll second this. ^

(And yes, don't throw away your split shot.)

 

[nomad_archer]

Play with your euro leader. Remember that many of the euro recommendations come from guys fishing much bigger water than you will typically see in PA. George Daniel has some great videos about practical PA rigging.

As many have said avoid the shot if you can. I still use it but I use it sparingly. I have had days where I re-rig 1000 times. Sometimes I just cant get out of my own way.

I tend to keep my leader simple. I adjust my tippet based on the water I am fishing. Sometimes that means I am running 4-6' of 5x to the first dropper and another 18-24" to the the bottom fly. I dont bother stepping down my tippet. I usually use 5x and 6x if necessary.

There are times when I'll fish as many as 3 flies. Recently with the lower flows I've been fishing 3' tippet and a single fly.

Also there is no hard and fast rules. Sometimes I will put my heavy fly on the dropper to get everything down. Other times I will but the heavy fly on the bottom so I can cover more of the water column. You can make this as complicated or simple as you want. Just experiment and find what works for you.

 

[CRB]

Use a "floro" leader. use a "surgen" knot and use the through knot tag on the lead fly. Use a "X" size smaller "mono" tippet to the next fly.
This was explained on a recent orvis podcast on eruo nymphing.