Taking a Casting Lesson Tomorrow Morning

[UncleShorty]

There's an IFFF CI certified casting instructor who lives just 5 minutes down the road from me.

He's retired, as am I, and he's volunteered to give me an hour of his time tomorrow morning, free, gratis. I offered to pay but he wouldn't hear of it.

I'm going to limber up my new 4 wt, 8.5 ft Allen Heritage. Even with watching all the videos and reading lots of material I'm concerned about developing bad habits that will limit me in the future.

So, I'll let everyone know how it goes and drop some tips I glean from my lesson.

 

[UncleShorty]

I had an excellent lesson this morning.

Among the many take-aways was the discussion/demonstration of grips.

Essentially there are three thumb on top, index finger on to and vee-grip.

Holding your rod with your thumb on top flex your wrist rearward. Note how far your wrist can move. Then try the index finger grip and finally the vee-grip.

You will see immediately that the vee-grip allows the least "break".

This is important because a stiff wrist makes a smaller more powerful loop.

Try it tonight when you are practicing your casting, you might see a difference...

 

[troutbert]

I think thumb on top is the best casting grip.

What say you casting gurus?

I don't recall casting grip being discussed on here before, but it's a good topic.

 

[just_jon]

+1 for thumb up top. I've taught a number of friends over the years and that grip helped prevent the wrist dump that plaques so many beginners.

 

[UncleShorty]

Actually, if you try it you will see that the vee-grip allows lees "wrist break", and thus tighter loops and a faster line.

I used the thumb on top grip and found that I had to concentrate on my wrist, not on my timing and applying the right power.

To each his own, but for me the vee-grip has helped to eliminate the open loop and its associated casting failures.

 

[UncleShorty]

Not to take issue with your post, but for me the thumb on top is the worst grip for eliminating wrist dump.

How long have you been an IFFF Certified Casting Instructor?

 

[troutbert]

Here's a short but interesting video on V-grip.

http://www.ginkandgasoline.com/fly-fishing/the-v-grip/

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Trying to correct casting issues without actually seeing an individual cast is not the easiest thing to do.

Sounds to me like there is some confusion here between the "vee grip" and what Gary Borger calls the "three point grip".

http://www.garyborger.com/2012/08/22/the-three-point-grip/

The three point grip does indeed allow less "wrist break" than the "thumb on top" grip.

Try this:

Hold a rod butt section in your hand with the thumb on top grip, in the position of the stop on the back cast. Bend your wrist back as far as it will go. Now change nothing but the grip (to the three point grip), and you'll see that the rod is now positioned pretty close to the ideal stop angle for a short/medium range cast.

The three point grip just doesn't allow you to bend your wrist back as far (anatomy).

There's advantages and disadvantages to both grips, and it depends on the individual.

For me, I get greater accuracy with the three point grip, but less power for long casts. I'll often use the three point grip in tight casting circumstances, but I'm more comfortable with the thumb on top grip. To each his own.

FWIW, a good casting instructor should easily be able to correct your casting issues without changing your grip. It's a "band-aid" that doesn't address the real issues. If you understand the mechanics of the cast, you'll understand this.

While I no longer get paid to teach casting, I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express once. ;-)

 

[RCFetter]

On Lefty Kreh's "Lessons with Lefty" DVD, he has two chapters on the grip where he says the thumb s/b on top of the cork and that the thumb is used as a target indicator.

He also mentions that many castors use the index finger on top for small streams.

Lastly, he says the grip should be very loose but tightened at the end of the back cast and again at the end of the forward cast.


Edit:

I just checked Joan Wulff's DVD "Dynamics of Fly Casting" and in her chapter on the grip she says the thumb should be of top of the cork and the rod handle should be griped with your fingers and not the palm of your hand.

If I had a professional instructor tell me different, I'd follow his advice because he is giving personal instruction whereas DVD instructions are designed for the public.

 

[dryflyguy]

For me, fishing dry flies only, accuracy has been more of a concern than distance.
And casting with the index finger on top has always seemed to be best for that

 

[UncleShorty]

Oh oh, it looks like I opened a real can of worms here, (#@%* bait fisherman)...

I think fly casters should do whatever works for them individually. If you are most successful, (accuracy and distance wise), holding your rod "between your cheek and gum" as opposed to one of the a standard grips then you ought to do it.

For me, when I switched from thumb on top to the vee-grip my accuracy and distance both improved. Others have not experienced what I have and that isn't right or wrong.

As beginners we should be open to trying anything, within reason, that helps us improve.

One thing I do know for a fact though. In my case that one lesson was worth 50 hours of DVD viewing.

My biggest concern was developing bad habits at this stage that would limit or prevent me from becoming a better caster. The guy who taught me yesterday agreed that's a worthy goal

Well the grass needs cut in the back yard and the mower and trimmer are broke down.

I guess I'll get the old 4 wt. out and do some weed wackin'...

 

[krayfish2]

I use all 3 grips....depends on the day I guess. Did teach my nephews the "v" grip when starting them out.

 

[Chaz]

UncleShorty wrote:
Oh oh, it looks like I opened a real can of worms here, (#@%* bait fisherman)...

I think fly casters should do whatever works for them individually. If you are most successful, (accuracy and distance wise), holding your rod "between your cheek and gum" as opposed to one of the a standard grips then you ought to do it.

For me, when I switched from thumb on top to the vee-grip my accuracy and distance both improved. Others have not experienced what I have and that isn't right or wrong.

As beginners we should be open to trying anything, within reason, that helps us improve.

One thing I do know for a fact though. In my case that one lesson was worth 50 hours of DVD viewing.

My biggest concern was developing bad habits at this stage that would limit or prevent me from becoming a better caster. The guy who taught me yesterday agreed that's a worthy goal

I've been casting flies so long I can't tell you what grip I use, while I can't cast as long a distance as some anglers, I get the job done. and accuracy is as important to me as distance. This is a great discussion and it is what this board is about.

 

[poopdeck]

^ Agree. It's the mechanics of what you want to accomplish thats important. However you get there is determined by what's comfortable or more natural to each individual. I too could not tell you what grip I use. Next time I go out ill check.

 

[SteveG]

Regarding the above vid on the v-grip. Wouldn't he be throwing a massive tailing loop due to the travel of the rod tip?

 

[KeithS]

Steve, it didn't appear so. And if he did, he intended to.

 

[duckfoot]

"...we're going to make a cast with thumb on top with no wrist snap" *wrist doesn't snap*

"...now we're going to add the thumb on top with the wrist snap" *wrist still doesn't snap*

I chuckled.

EDIT: Notice that guy's elbow. With thumb on top, the elbow doesn't move. With the V grip, the elbow starts to help throw the rod.

Food for thought.