Sweatshop flys

[JackM]

I find that foreign tied flies end up in trees just as easily as ones tied in the USA. I tie for myself, but also buy flies. I give up to $2 per fly to a local flyshop when I need something and didn't anticipate by tying or buying ahead. I will also buy a handful or two of flies from a local shop even if I don't need them, just to throw them some profit. If the latter is my intention, I probably help them more when buying their imports as it is clear that they must make more profit on those than ones tied locally.

So, who are you trying to help, the local tier or the flyshop? If the latter, you should, perhaps, specially request the most profitable flies. If those are tied by folks with funny names, then just smile and say thanks and then chuck them in the nearest waste-can.

 

[Leteras]

My point is that if you tie your own or buy them I would go American all the way. There are enough jobs that have been taken away from Americans to cheap labor overseas. Start investing back into America. The hooks you can't do anything about they are made in Japan but that just goes to show you how things have changed. I get satisfaction catching fish on flies I tied. I like being able to outsmart a fish with my own creation. I also like when I get pictures of fish guys have caught on my flies. To sum it up how can the flies tied over seas not be cheap. They get the cheapest materials they can get and the cheapest labor. Everything is based on production and not quality. I want a fly that I personally know can handle a nice fish. I don't like playing the lottery with my flies. By the way Ramcatt those hooks I use I personally stress tested and even put them in the freezer to make sure when they get cold that the steel dosen't become brittle and break and they are fine.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Leteras wrote:
My point is that if you tie your own or buy them I would go American all the way.

But you don't care were the materials and hooks are made? This seems like a bigger issue to me than where the flys are tied.

Leteras wrote:
There are enough jobs that have been taken away from Americans to cheap labor overseas. Start investing back into America.

Until the cheap labor stops existing overseas (an unlikely scenario)or the American worker decides to work for a wage comparable to what the overseas worker is paid (an impossible scenario), "investing back into America" is just a bromide that causes people to waste money. Are you willing to pay $3/fly to keep the American tyer and the fly shop in business? Most wont, money talks.

Leteras wrote:
To sum it up how can the flies tied over seas not be cheap. They get the cheapest materials they can get and the cheapest labor. Everything is based on production and not quality. I want a fly that I personally know can handle a nice fish. I don't like playing the lottery with my flies.

You are repeating the same claims without offering a shred of evidence to support them. I have seen several people defending the quality of overseas tied flys, and I closely examined them myself and found them to be of high quality. I don't think anyone has agreed with you on this point. Frankly, I want to support US tyers as much as you do, and if I bought flys I would go out of my way to do so. But I can't see a point to making false claims about the foreign products and lumping them all into a basket labeled inferior. While the labor may be cheap (by US standards), it is plentiful and competition for jobs keeps the workers at the top of their game. Please, if you are going to insist on making these claims provide some source to back them up other than your own suspicion.

 

[PennKev]

Leteras wrote:
Overseas flies are tied with mininal thread wraps, no head cement, junk material and reject hooks that the major manufactuers didn't get the steel mix right.

Compared to the domestic flies that have bad proportions, crowded eyes, crowded gaps, hooks that look like they were made from old coat hangers, and having an over-all shoddy appearance.

Of course no American tier would sell such flies! Could you imagine?

 

[jaybo41]

This is a very good read that those concerned with the conditions of workers in those "Sweat Shops" that produce flies offshore or have curiosity as to how the operations work.

Fly Rod & Reel - Foriegn Tied

The days of buying products made 100% of American sourced materials are long behind us. We live in a global economy, like it or not. If I can buy American made products that's always my preference. If I can buy products produced by American companies, no matter where they are sourced I can live with that too. Folks that are concerned with the conditions of the workers in these alleged Sweat Shops should also consider every other purchase they make. I have no facts to back it up, but I'd wager that lots of products in our households are made by people earning a lower wage that work in conditions much, much worse than what we are accustomed to here in the US.

When I travel to fish, I buy flies from the local shops. If they are off shore tied and still local patterns great, If I can get shop tied flies even better. The key here is as long as they are quality ties. Tying myself I can pretty easily tell whether or not the quality is there. Some of the cheap flies don't hold up as well as others, but if I can supplement my box with cheap flies that allows me more time on the water or to do whatever else. With all this said, back to the bench.

 

[Leteras]

Frequent Tyer I only said about the hooks being from Japan that is where they are almost all made so you have to use them? I never said about using foreign materials. Aparently you can't read. I never stated using foreign materials other than the inevitable hooks. The way you defend the foreign flies makes me wonder where your loyalty lies. Maybe you are a secret sweatshop worker. LOL. This thread asked for people's opinions on foreign flies and I gave mine. An opinion is unique to every person. You don't have to like it or accept it. I don't think you should bash people for having different views than yourself. That is my two cents.

 

[Ramcatt]

I guess uninformed and ignorant opinions... Are still opinions

 

[Leteras]

You should know about that Ramcatt. You offer many of those.

 

[gaeronf]

Good opinions and ideas everyone! Let's keep this thread on topic, it's interesting.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Leteras wrote:
Frequent Tyer I only said about the hooks being from Japan that is where they are almost all made so you have to use them? I never said about using foreign materials. Aparently you can't read. I never stated using foreign materials other than the inevitable hooks. The way you defend the foreign flies makes me wonder where your loyalty lies. Maybe you are a secret sweatshop worker. LOL. This thread asked for people's opinions on foreign flies and I gave mine. An opinion is unique to every person. You don't have to like it or accept it. I don't think you should bash people for having different views than yourself. That is my two cents.

Leteras, I am not "bashing" anyone. I was simply trying to discuss the topic. I'll stop trying now, which will probably make a lot of people happy. But before I do, let me just respond to a few points you raised here.
My mention of materials was a reference to a post I made earlier in the thread. It had nothing to do with what you had written. Do you know where your vice, bobbin, thread, and materials were made? If you sat down and calculated it, I'm willing to bet (and I could be wrong) that you as a commercial tyer send more money overseas that the average fisherman that buys foreign tied flys. I find that to be an odd contradiction.
You are now going to hide behind your "opinion." I read back through this thread (my reading comprehension is fine, but I do appreciate your concern) and this is the first time you qualified your statements as opinion. You stated as fact that all foreign tied flys are garbage, going so far as to point out specific flaws in the tying methods, and never supported those statements. I think that the article jaybo41 posted was an excellent balanced report on the topic and while some foreign flys may be substandard, many are high quality.
As for my loyalty, there is no reason to wonder. I am loyal to myself first and foremost. Based on a lot of what you have written, I think that you are loyal to yourself. That is good. I don't trust anyone that would claim they are not loyal to themselves.
In conclusion, you have the opinion that all foreign tied flys are junk and apparently feel quite strong about that opinion. I have an interest in basing my opinion on facts, and the fact I have indicate that there are many good quality flys tied overseas, and the economics of the situation make the isolationist "buy USA" mentality untenable. I sincerely apologize if I wrote anything that made you feel "bashed." I was challenged by what you wrote to question my own assumptions and thought that you might enjoy being challenged in a like manner.
Lets get back to tying.
Mike.

 

[Ramcatt]

since i've been "notified"

Sandfly- I know you like to tie flies it was wrong of me to point out that imported flies are better that your domestically tied flies

Leteras- I know you are not very open minded and don't know much outside of your world, and your ignorant comments about foreign cultures aren't really your fault. I shouldn't have called your "exact replica" hooks knock offs, or brought up your caddis patterns that have a history on the board.


Back to the topic

a small local one room shop has flies tied by the people that work there... cool... more power to them... they are the exception not the rule...

it would be great if the larger operations could do the same... but there are not enough tiers willing to work for the low pay of production tying and have the skill to do so... hell at $4 a fly direct sale, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who does if for anything other than a labor of love, let alone turns a liveable profit

my original point ... walk into any med/large fly shop... close to 100% of the flies are imported... and if they are from a quality distributor (which I listed on page 1) the flies are better than anyone on this board can tie.... and thinking that just because they are tied in a foreign country they are poor quality is just wrong.

on to the materials used in the flies...
the large over seas fly tying operations get better materials than the major US material companies... FACT... hell the people who make feather dusters and pet/kid's toys get better raw materials

 

[Leteras]

Frequent Tyer no hard feelings with anything.