Sweatshop flys

[willscreek]

I'll start off redundantly in regard to the fly tying topic but I thought I would open a new can of worms on something I take very personal. Tying is an art that's for sure. Everyone who does it has a pattern they kinda molded into their own. That's what I enjoy about it. However, I have a serious problem with these damn imported flys from some place communist or 3rd world. I'm making a plea to everyone here to find ways to support local folks or someone who resides here in the good old US of A when you buy flys. Furthermore, I can't believe when I go into the standard box type sporting good chain store that they seem ignorant to the fishing heritage in my area. I guess in a nutshell, all those reasons are why I make my own stuff now. Another thing is I don't have to go somewhere to get something I need...I just make it home with the advantage of making it better to fish my local streams.

 

[boss_steb]

Wills,
Can I get a witness from the congregation....

Amen brother...

Now if we could only get Cabelas to buy locally...not from their international tyers club...

Boss

 

[SBecker]

It's not just Cabelas, many of the local shops buy from over seas.

 

[paparise]

"hand tied in shrilanka", by who?, an 11 year old kid and his mom? No thanks.

 

[Ramcatt]

What fly rods do you fish?
Waders?
Reels?
Tools?
Tying tools?
Materials?

Have you ever seen a overseas tying operation?
Do you know the conditions? Wages?
Do you know which US distributor your flies come from? And where they source their flies?

 

[troutbert]

Are the flies actually tied in "sweatshops?"

Has anyone seen any serious reporting on the conditions these flies are tied under, how the people are treated etc.?

I'm hoping we can get some actual INFORMATION on this topic.

 

[FrequentTyer]

I had a long talk about this with the guy from Flyshack at one of the shows. He has his flys tied in Africa. The conditions are superior to most other local industries and the quality of life of the tyers is adequate with respects to the region. We talked about the economy of the business, and the concept of innovation as opposed to production. It was a really eye opening discussion and I have to admit it changed the way I think about this topic.
His point was that historically in every industry the US has been a source of innovation. We come up with the new ideas, and game changing methods. But the economics of the situation move production to other countries. This has happened in just about every big industry you can think of. If the automotive, computer, and pharmaceutical industry followed this model, then why would we expect fly tying to be any different?
At a personal level, I think of it as follows. If I am a commercial tyer (and I'm not) I can not tie a fly and sell it for less than a certain amount that would compensate me for my time and materials. That number is set by my local economy as I have to eat. In turn, you will not want to buy a fly for much more than that number because you also have to eat. So how can the flyshop make a profit if they pay me and sell to you? The folks in Africa have to eat too, but they can do so for less because of their local economy, So the flyshop pays them (directly or indirectly) and can then add an appropriate markup so that you find the flys affordable. Now everybody gets to eat except the US commercial tyer. He has to now adapt to being an innovator instead of a manufacturer.
I know that this is not a popular view, but I really don't think that there is anything wrong with this overall scenario. Companies have a responsibility to stay in business and provide profit to their shareholders.

 

[Leteras]

Screw those flies tied by foreiners in their huts and rice patties. I don't want want flies tied by Chung Lee or Durka Durka.

 

[Tony300wby]

If it wasnt for the "imported" sign over the fly display or at the begining of the fly pages in the catalog, people would not be able to tell if they were tied in Sri Lanka or Pa. Most of the imported flies I have seen at fly shops, LL Bean, Cabelas, Orvis, ect are very well tied flies.

I totally agree, its great to support the USA. But; I think Frequent Tyer has provided more accurate information about the state of the commercial fly tying industry then some of the claims being made about "sweat shops".

Good luck, Tony

 

[Leteras]

Overseas flies are tied with mininal thread wraps, no head cement, junk material and reject hooks that the major manufactuers didn't get the steel mix right.

 

[SBecker]

Sounds like my flies

 

[Leteras]

Nah sbecker the flies you post on here are pretty good.

 

[FrequentTyer]

Leteras wrote:
Overseas flies are tied with mininal thread wraps, no head cement, junk material and reject hooks that the major manufactuers didn't get the steel mix right.

Well, other than being completely unsupportable and inaccurate, this statement does not even make sense.
Minimal thread wraps are what quality tyers strive for. I can't count how many threads I have seen where US tyers are proudly stating they stopped using head cement and only use half hitches. As for the hooks, we both know that given the small number of manufactures left, there is a very high probability that we use the same hooks. I looked closely at their flys for trout, steelhead, warmater, and salt. They were perfecty fine looking flys tied with quality materials. If the quality were poor, the companies would not survive.

Leteras wrote:
Screw those flies tied by foreiners in their huts and rice patties. I don't want want flies tied by Chung Lee or Durka Durka.

I realize that you are likely trolling here, but in all seriousness, is this what you think before you sit down at your in all probability foreign made vise to wrap Korean jelly wrope and Indian peacock herl around an asian hook? That kind of isolationist thinking just does not work in the long run. The world has changed and like it or not we live in it.

 

[willscreek]

I thought people would bring up equipment and supplies too. I just think that the simple fly is a good place to start when buying American. Maybe it can move on to other things from there.

 

[Ramcatt]

99.9 % of the flies (if not 100%) of the flies you see in a fly shop are imported
Umpqua- http://umpqua.com/t-flygallery.aspx
Rainys- http://www.rainysflies.com/Flies/flies_Results.php?Type=Dries
Idylwilde- http://www.idylwilde.com/html/fly_gallery_landing.php
Montana fly Co- http://www.montanafly.com/
ect

all imported
every fly
(click on the product tab and look at all the different styles of flies)


there are 10,000s of flies in those links... all better than the Leteras glow in the dark caddis fly in 38 colors

the only way you're getting American tied flies... goto a fly show, find a tiers, and put in a special order... for $3 or $4 per fly

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Ramcatt wrote:
99.9 % of the flies (if not 100%) of the flies you see in a fly shop are imported
....the only way you're getting American tied flies... goto a fly show, find a tiers, and put in a special order... for $3 or $4 per fly

This is simply not true. Flyfisher's Paradise, TCO, Evening Hatch, and several shops in Northeast PA have local tyers tie at least some of their flies.

While those shops I listed sell some imported flies, they all have local ties in their selections. For some of those shops, the majority of their flies are local ties. Stop in there on any given day, and odds are good you'll see employees tying flies for the bins. These shops will also happily tell you which flies are local ties, and which ones are imported.

One individual comes to mind that supplies a lot of shops here in the Northeast - Stan Cooper. He's tied over 2 million flies in his lifetime. In fact, he's never had a job other than selling flies, and he's in his 80's.

 

[BradFromPotter]

Ramcatt wrote:
99.9 % of the flies (if not 100%) of the flies you see in a fly shop are imported
Umpqua- http://umpqua.com/t-flygallery.aspx
Rainys- http://www.rainysflies.com/Flies/flies_Results.php?Type=Dries
Idylwilde- http://www.idylwilde.com/html/fly_gallery_landing.php
Montana fly Co- http://www.montanafly.com/
ect

all imported
every fly
(click on the product tab and look at all the different styles of flies)


there are 10,000s of flies in those links... all better than the Leteras glow in the dark caddis fly in 38 colors

the only way you're getting American tied flies... goto a fly show, find a tiers, and put in a special order... for $3 or $4 per fly

You're correct Ramcatt.
Everybody want's US tied flies for foreign prices. I know when I had my shop I had people come in & always want a deal if they bought a dozen flies. They always asked how much are they if they bought a dozen. My answer..12 x's. Pretty simple I thought.

 

[Ramcatt]

Heritage-Angler wrote:

Ramcatt wrote:
99.9 % of the flies (if not 100%) of the flies you see in a fly shop are imported
....the only way you're getting American tied flies... goto a fly show, find a tiers, and put in a special order... for $3 or $4 per fly

This is simply not true. Flyfisher's Paradise, TCO, Evening Hatch, and several shops in Northeast PA have local tyers tie at least some of their flies.

While those shops I listed sell some imported flies, they all have local ties in their selections. For some of those shops, the majority of their flies are local ties. Stop in there on any given day, and odds are good you'll see employees tying flies for the bins. These shops will also happily tell you which flies are local ties, and which ones are imported.

One individual comes to mind that supplies a lot of shops here in the Northeast - Stan Cooper. He's tied over 2 million flies in his lifetime. In fact, he's never had a job other than selling flies, and he's in his 80's.

run the numbers
How many fly SKUs do they have
1000? 1500?
what 10... 100 patterns by local tiers?

still 90% imported

 

[Heritage-Angler]

From page 1 of the Flyfisher's Paradise catalog:

"Flies - Tied for Americans by Americans.

We are proud to say that the overwhelming majority of our trout flies are tied in the United States by skilled fly tyers who are also skilled fly fishermen. We think this makes them a bit better than the average-run fly mass produced overseas..."

Just one exception to your math skills.

 

[Ramcatt]

i've never been to that shop or seen their catalog

I see no hard numbers... just a vauge statement

IF that is true "majority of our trout flies"
what does that mean for their entire stock of flies?
What is a "trout fly"?
just seasonal supply of flies for local hatches?
do they call out which patterns are locally tied?

if they have 20% of their fly stock from local tiers (highly unlikely) I would say they would be an extreme excption rather than the rule

The "tied in the united states" comment is a bit odd...
I'd rather fish a localy designed fly tied overseas... than a fly designed and tied accross the country