Support your local fly shops!

I've been accused of still having my First Communion money, but the truth is, as significant as my addiction to fly fishing is, I cannot justify wasting money on the hobby that can be put to use elsewhere. Shopping is an economic contest to me-- I want to get the most for the least. For a retailer, they want the most for the least as well. I want the most product for the least money, they want the most money for the least product. It is a natural and undeniable tension. I will not take advantage of one retailer's information or displays and then go out and save a $20 bill at an online retailer or Wal-Mart, but I can assure you if I know what I want and it is cheaper in one of these other outlets, I will not pay out more for the same item just to "keep a local shop in business." Frankly, they aren't that important to my style of re-supplying myself.

I shop in local fly shops for fishing sundries, such as splitshot, tippet, floatant, and of course flies, when I am in need of such items on the way to a stream. If the shop wasn't there, I would simply plan ahead better.

I loved the corner grocery store back in the day as well, but now that they are all but gone entirely, I really don't miss them that much.

I think if I had money to burn, I might feel differently, but until then, I have no guilt in shopping for my equipment and supplies at retailers who offer me a chance to get a little more for a little less. There, I have said it. :-o
 
Jack,

My point about the online and big box merchants is that they stink at service. So the stage where you are forming your opinion on "knowing what you want" is difficult without the service of a good flyshop.

If, for instance, you were thinking of getting a new flyrod and were considering a St. Croix, a Reddington and an Orvis rod you'd be darn lucky to be able to try all three side by side any other way than at a flyshop. Yes, the big box guys would have the merchandise and would probably let you take them out... if you tackle a clerk and hold him hostage long enough to ask. You could order all three from an internet site and return the two you didn't like... but even I don't spend money like that. Or maybe you're incredibly lucky to know three guys with the exact rods you are considering and you are all going fishing next Saturday. But more likely you're going to go to a good flyshop and ask them to help you out.

Then when you decide to purchase you could 1) wait a year for the big box guys to mark the rod down in an inventory blowout sale 2) take the $20 markdown from the online guy and apply it to the $20 shipping cost 3) get it from the flyshop. IMHO, it's easier to go to a place that has the merchandise I like, good service and prices that are reasonable. Besides, my time is worth something to me too and I don't want to spend days driving from one place to another seeing who is $3 cheaper.

Same goes for tying materials and waders etc. I like being allowed to open the packages of material to see if they are of good quality. I like that the flyshop spends time helping me get the right fit & letting me try several sizes, rather than making me take a good guess.
 
Well, I bought a rod from International Angler on EBAY a few years ago. Never been there though. I rountinely buy Orvis stuff from my "local" shop through their link in their website on the INTERNET. Perhaps other local shops need to join the internet commerece community, it isn't going anywhere. Or I can pull out my violin.

I buy a lot of stuff at Cabela's because I get a lot of "free" stuff with my credit card and their service is second to none, at least as an online business. Their prices really aren't any different than my local shops.

I will say that there seems to be an increasing amount of cheap gear of marginal quality out there. As I look at a room full of fishing and hunting gear I see a bunch of stuff that is half broken and a bunch of stuff that I really don't need. Would a wise salesman at a local shop have steered me towards making the perfect pruchase of high quality gear? I suppose I could kid myself into thinking that......but my experience is that local shops push the gear they have on their shelves and they have a lot more limited selection than "big boxes". My two nearest shops are staffed by a nice woman who doesn't know much about fishing (here husband is always out fishing) and another who is staffed by a guy who sits in his chair and smokes cigars as much as he fishes these days, and opens and closes his shop on a very erratic basis. They almost make a half-way decent salesperson between them. Oh well. At least the lady's husband ties killer steelhead flies.

I will also say that nothing beats a live person you can talk to when something goes wrong with something or you need some guidance. I always will be willing to pay a little more for that. I also understand that customers are, in general, a real pain to deal with and largely unreasonable, and the subsequent desire to sell things without actually having to talk to people.

Happy Black Friday to all.
 
All things being equal, the merchandise and the price, I will buy at the local fly shop. I would even pay a small premium for good service at the fly shop. I agree that I would not pay $300 for a 7’7 ” 3.5 wt Miracle rod at a FF shop, if a BB store sells the same rod for $250, but that’s usually not the case with prices on rods or reels. I might pay $260 at a local fly shop though. If I broke it, I could bring it back to the store and the shop would ship it back for me for repair (been there, done that). The shop even gave me a demo to use until the rod was repaired. Good service is worth something.

Also, more competition, with a larger number of retail outlets keeps the pricing in line and also increases the selection of merchandise in the long run. Manufacturers too small to be bothered with by the BB stores, that may offer more innovative and reasonably priced products, have an outlet to sell their products in many of independent FF shops.

When dealing with customers in business, I always tell the sales force that if we refused to deal with AH’s, we’d have no customers left to sell to……. Tim, I guess George Dubbaya recinded his offer to make you the U.S. ambassador to East Bejusus. Heyna?

Hope everyone had a great holiday.
 
Dear afishinado,

I didn't mean to imply that you aren't free to spend your money exactly when and where you want to spend it.

I just want everyone to know that the people that are making things "more affordable" aren't doing it for your benefit, they are doing it for their benefit.

Just sayin'

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
Tim,

We are in 100% agreement. I know either of us would rather buy from Steve at FFP for example, or any good local shop, before giving our business to the big box guys. When you look at the big picture, it will benefit everyone to keep as many of the GOOD FF shops in business to promote competition for better prices, better service, and more selection. The smaller manufacturers would fall off the face of the Earth if only the BB's survived, and the BB's would be the only outlets remaining to set the bar for pricing.
 
afishinado wrote:
Tim,

We are in 100% agreement. I know either of us would rather buy from Steve at FFP for example, or any good local shop, before giving our business to the big box guys. When you look at the big picture, it will benefit everyone to keep as many of the GOOD FF shops in business to promote competition for better prices, better service, and more selection. The smaller manufacturers would fall off the face of the Earth if only the BB's survived, and the BB's would be the only outlets remaining to set the bar for pricing.
Click to expand...

Dear afishinado,

Do you have any advice as to how we can get the rest of the people to sign on to our program? :-D

I don't want to, and will not, go off on a rant, but this mentality of wanting everything for nothing yesterday is going to ruin more than just fly fishing.

In defense of the BB stores I will go on record to say that I buy a lot of clothes at Cabela's. They seem have decent clothes for big fat people like myself. If there is a place that does that better I'm all ears.

One thing that I think a lot of people miss in this discussion is the value of quality gear vs. the "throw away" mentality that a lot of the Big Box stores seem to promote?

Unless I break a rod or get a an itch I just can't scratch I'm reasonably sure I've bought my last fly rod forever. I have about 30 of them and all of them will live far longer than I will, hell many of them are already far older than I am. :lol:

I really think that some of the problems that fly fishing retailers as a whole have is that they are dealing with a group of people that do not automatically toss last year's model away for this year's newest and greatest. Fly rods are not TV's or cameras or cars, yet even the makers of fly rods seem to think they are?

There is a world of difference between "user's" and "consumer's."

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
I recently broke the spool on my Battenkill reel by dropping it on a rock. I took it back to the Sporting Gentleman, expecting to buy a new spool.

Not only did they hook me up with a new spool at no charge, they also loaded my line and mailed me some sulphur colored quills for free because they couldn't find them while I was there.

I cannot recommend them enough.
 
At my local fly shop, around prime time, their phone rings off the hook with people asking about the grannom hatch, the sulphur hatch, the green drake hatch, the water conditions on stream X, Y and Z, and so forth. I wonder how many of those people really buy their rods, reels, boots from Carpelas or online from Orvis or LL Bean, then call the real fly shop for information. I really don't know, I'm just wondering.

Lots of people have talked about enjoying local shops, the local knowledge, often special local or PA fly patterns, customized service, etc.

If people actually SHOP at these stores, that will continue. If not, they'll close. I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone, just descriping the situation factually, because I don't think many people are really grasping the reality of the situation. If people shop at the real fly shops, they'll continue and if not they won't be here in the future. They'll be gone, and flyfishing in PA will be very different. These fly shops are a big part of the fly fishing culture in PA, the keepers of the flame, if you will.

Think of what Clousers has meant to warmwater flyfishing in PA and elsewhere. Think what Flyfishers Paradise has contributed to fishing in central PA. Or Slate Run Tackle to fly fishing in the northcentral freestone area. Or the Yellow Breeches shop to the Cumberland Valley streams flyfishing.

And in many cases there's no sacrifice at all for buying from local shops. Many people buy Orvis stuff through their catalog or online. You can buy the same tackle for the same price through many local flyshops who carry Orvis gear, supporting the people who support PA flyfishing.

Similarly you can buy Loomis from Cabelas, or from a local shop. Same product, same price. You don't have to drive 200 miles in mid-winter to do it either. You can just call the good shops and they'll give you good advice and fix you up.
 
I guess it all comes down to whether we have gotten better service and value at our "local" shops or big box chains. We'll vote with our dollars. I wish I had that idyllic corner fly shop that had great service and decent prices. I don't.

I don't shed a tear for any shop that puts their head in the sand and ignores internet and creating a convienient non-threatening value based shopping experience for the new to intermediate level angler. These are the people who actually buy lots of things.

The only people I feel sad when a shop closes is for is the customers who really enjoy having that boutique experience. But then, hey, thats another business opprotunity for someone else to do even a better job.
 
I think that you guys are really blowing this out of perspective.

"I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone, just descriping the situation factually, because I don't think many people are really grasping the reality of the situation."

What is the situation? You want me to go out of my way to buy materials and equipment just so some trout bum doesn't have to get a straight job like the rest of the galaxy?

If your business is sustainable it will be fine. If it is not, then why prolong the inevitable?

Chew on this one. Cabellas and many of the BB stores are just private dudes who figured it out and expanded.

So what happens when FFP get too successful and the open up a handful of additional shops? Will you decry their success?

Just asking....
 
"So what happens when FFP get too successful and the open up a handful of additional shops? Will you decry their success?

Just asking...."

That probably depends on whether they maintain whatever it is that makes some of us prefer them over the BBs. While TCO Reading has a very loyal following, I've been underwhelmed with their Villanova store.
 
You want me to go out of my way to buy materials and equipment just so some trout bum doesn't have to get a straight job like the rest of the galaxy?
Click to expand...

The reason to support local shops isn't for THEIR sake, it's for OUR sake, as PA flyfishers.

Because the fly shops have been, and still are, a big part of PA flyfishing. If they disappear, that would be a big change. People will only realize it when it happens I suppose.

They'll want to check out if the Green Drake hatch has started yet on Penns Creek.

Or you want to see if Big Pine Creek has got down to fishable levels yet.

Whaddya gonnna do, call LL Bean and talk to some "sales associate" in Maine? Or maybe Bangalore?
 
Most of my expenditure on tangible fishing stuff is on rod building supplies - I build typically 3 or 4 rods per year. I don't care for high end blanks and usually stick to "brand X" blanks with medium action. Unfortunately most fly shops don't carry this sort of thing so I wind up ordering most of my rod building stuff from Cabelas which offers a lot of choices in the price range I'm looking for. FFP does carry some rod building supplies and I usually stock up on guides, cork grips and similar stuff when I'm there. Having said that, I am loyal to a couple fly shops in PA and continue to buy almost all my tying materials there because of the way these shops treated me when I was young. They have earned my loyalty. When still in my teens, Steve at FFP gave me a job tying flies when I was a student at PSU. Although I didn't turn out to be one of his better tyers I look back with gratitude that he was willing to give me a chance and I am certainly a better tyer for it. FFP and Yellow Breeches Outfitters also allowed me a business opportunity. When I approached a couple BB stores and art galleries with similar requests I was turned away - no doubt because I had no proven reputation as a money maker and it just wasn't worth their time to work with "little people." I owe a hearty "thanks" to FFP and YBO for treating me as well as they did when I was young and didn't have a lot of $ to spend. I was always welcome in these stores and count their proprietors as friends and mentors. Although I like the BB stores and will buy stuff like rod blanks there, I save my purchases of most stuff for the fly shops who took care of me.
 
I guess it comes down to the fact that some of us really value the advice and relationships we get at our "local" shops. That might be the local outlet of a chain or a traditional one location flyshop. IMHO, I don't see the benefit of oredering off the net. I have been disappointed with quality. I have rarely seen bargains that actually work out when shipping is added.

I treasure the exceptions I have found to this though! Bass Pro shops has a great flyshop (although not all the clerks are as knowledgeable as you might wish). And Bass Pro supports local conservation groups. I also like troutflies.com. Their flies are of excellent quality. While not cheap they last and last, which I value more than the lowest price. (Who wants to stand in a stream with trout feeding voraciously all around, only to find that your last imitation is nothing but a few winds of thread? Well, I supose all of us, but hopefully we've caught 30 or 40 before that happened rather than 3 or 4!) But I could say the same of Yellow Breeches Outfitters, & The Feathered Hook which has really devoted itself to TU over the years. Both have excellent flies that stand up well to getting chewed on by trouts!
 
Since I made the initial post and have read other's thoughts on this, I'd like to make a few comments.

I made the post to present some figures and a real life experience to those that have the option to, but are on the fence with where we buy our gear and supplies. The idea was to get people thinking about it, not to sway you one way or another.

I realize that not everyone is independantly wealthy, Lord knows I'm not. Sure, you might find better prices at some of the big box stores, but I believe that much of what we buy in terms of larger purchases is pre-set by the manufacturer. Some maybe, some maybe not. Maybe Sandfly can clarify this. Some shops only have higher end gear and that prices many of them out of people's budgets. I don't make every purchase at these shops, but I try to make a conservative effort. With this new information, I'll make more of an effort to do so.

One of the benefits I've found when dealing with a local fly shop (local being 35-40 min and 1 hour away for me) is that you build and establish relationships. I know that if I have a problem with gear purchased at the two shops I frequent, the guys are gonna take care of me. Some may not have had these kinds of experinces and I can certainly appreciate BB guarantees like LL Bean and Cabelas is fairly reliable too from my experiences. However, I value the personal touch that these shops provide. They give me suggestions on tying, local patterns, streams to try, etc. The BB stores cannot provide that to me.

To each their own, but if I've made you think about it, then I'm satisfied with that. That was my real intention.

:cool:
 
TimMurphy wrote:
Dear Board,



.....Have you ever fielded a phone call from somebody who asked. "What's your clearance price on the ABC model XYZ?"

I have, and the person said, "Well Little Big Creek Fly shop in East Bejusus has them for less than that."

I said, "Sounds like that is where you should buy it then." Then the customer would go, "They don't have anymore and I was wondering if you would match their price?"

That's when I would suddenly realize that I didn't own the shop and would just hang up instead of answering, "Hey man, GFU!," like I would have if I owned the shop.



Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
Click to expand...

Tim,
That reminds me of a time 20 years ago when I was buying a water heater. I went to the local hardware store in Carnegie and asked how much, the owner replied, $189. I said that Heckingers has them for $149. He said, "why didn't you buy it there?" I said they are out of them....He said, "when I am out of them they are $149 too."

I bought it then and there....It was a water heater with a "zinger" attached.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Montana Angler Fly Fishing
Harman's North Fork Cottages


Real Time Data From
the USGS Site

Share this page

Back
Top