Streambred Goldens ?

[Salvi1]

Ok 1st off what is a golden as in how do they get that way? Second the section of the breeches i float stock 6 or 7 times a year is a section that is NOT state stocked because of the distance you have to float it so basically i am the only person to stock it. In a spot way up that i know i have put NO goldens in I caught one small 7 inches and definitely streambred this fish was NOT a stockie. Now my question to you all is where in the helk would it come from? Possibly a pregnant golden was stocked at some time? I would appreciate any input.
Thanks

Sal

 

[FarmerDave]

The short answer is: The golden rainbow trout is simply the offspring of a genetic mutatuon that occured in a hatchery in West Virginia in 1954. "Through selective breeding with regularly marked rainbow trout, an all-gold, golden rainbow trout was developed."

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/pafish/fishhtms/chap16.htm#goldran

I'll add that these golden rainbows are not sterile as a lot of people believe. They are still rainbow trout and can reproduce. They just rarely survive to reproduce, and when they do, the offspring doesn't make it very long in the wild. That color is better than wearing a bulls-eye when it comes to predators, human and otherwise.

 

[Will]

Interesting. It is possible (perhaps most likely) that a golden rainbow was one parent of this trout, but as long as there was a golden (mutant) somewhere back in the family tree, it might show up as a recessive gene periodically in future generations.

 

[mattd]

Thats very interesting. I had a similiar occurance on a Perry County Stream. I caught about a 5 inch trout that looked like a golden rainbow but was very wild looking. It had alot of simularities to the small wild rainbows I catch but it was golden as a trout gets.
The oddest part of the whole thing is that the stream is not stocked. I've caught browns and brooks in the stream but never a rainbow or golden. I never told many people just because I could hardley believe it myself and I have no picture for proof. I'm thinking someone had to of put him in there.

 

[jayL]

I'd say it's a random mutation.

Salvi, trout don't get "pregnant", so rule that one out. They fertilize externally, so they need a mate in the stream to breed.

 

[highsticker]

I'm a big aquarium nut and have 13 tanks in my house including one 1000 gallon trout tank, so I've got a little bit of insight on this topic. The "golden trout" as PAF&BC calls them are the offspring of a genetic mutation called Xanthism (http://www.answers.com/xanthism&r=67)

This is simply a color morph of a naturally reproducing species, not a hybrid. That means that it naturally occurs. That also means that it could naturally occur in the wild. As mentioned, it's a recessive gene, and it could surface in a stream, although, as mentioned, the survivability of the offspring would be almost nil.

If you cross a Xanthic father with a natural mother, then breed the offspring against each other, theoretically, all of the offspring of the 3rd line would be Xanthic. It could be that some of the stocked fish had a xanthic father and that the siblings might have spawned with one another.

As for the wild stream with no stockies, as I mentioned, this color morph can occur on it's own in nature, so it's possible that you caught a naturally occuring color morph.

 

[Salvi1]

Highsticker and all,

thanks for the insight on this one. i found highsticks response very interesting indeed...thanks

 

[Padraic]

Isn't the simplest explanation that a small golden trout was stocked and moved to the area on its own?

 

[jayL]

Pad,

Not unless a private club did it. See PFBC link posted above... The state doesn't stock 'em that small, and I don't see a club putting a 7 inch pally in there. Who knows though?

 

[Salvi1]

Pad i of course thought of this but it was not stocked i can almost guarentee the riffles above and below this hole have been sooo low as in 2 inches that i thought it unlikely that it moved there this pool is 5 feet deep in drought conditions jayL the state does sometimes stock them in that small but no stocker here our club puts in 10 inch and well over on average very few smallies sneak into the mix...

S,

 

[Chaz]

First of all there are NO Golden Trout in Pennsylvania, they are a CA. curiousity, a form of rainbow trout considered a sub-species, found in the high elevations of the Sierras, in the Kern River Basin. They are perhaps even more beautiful then wild brookies, though I've only ever seen photos and paintings of them.
The fish you are asking about is a golden rainbow, a form of rainbow trout that is actually a color morph of the typical rainbow trout that we see in our streams. I believe you spawn them by finding a pair of that sickly orange coloration and artificially spawn them. Some will tell you they are hybrids but they are true rainbows, like blue trout are.
How they got there is anyones guess, clubs get these fish all the time and put in many places they are not supposed to put them just as they do other hatchery trout. But in rare instances they do reproduce in Pennsylvania so pretty much anything can happen.
Getting back to Golden Trout it's been rumored that they've been established in WVA somewhere in the Potomac River Drainage, but until I catch one I won't believe it.

 

[tomgamber]

Chaz do you ever read the previous posts or just kind of go off like a message board hand grenade. Its already been established they are referring to golden rainbows.

Golden trout (the kind you were referring to) are not really a curiosity as much as they are a sub species as you later stated. Not unlike the difference between West slope and green back cutts or columbia river redbands and coastal rainbows...BTW there are also goldens found in wyoming (stocked) and northern Mexico (natives).

These sub species are the result of isolation and adaptation. If the eastern US had gone thru the geologic rollercoaster that the pacific NW had gone thru, you would probably see many more different sub species of your beloved brook trout as well. I'm just sayn' is all.

 

[Salvi1]

i do not find these fish particulary interesting but a curiousity as said by someone its like a fish with a bullseye every goes after them and they rarely bite this one caught me by suprise being the first cast on a beautiful sunday morning. i prefer brooks by far. an interesting note is that from my observations they are alot more finicky than your average trout probably from angling pressure i literally have seen people bouncing spinners of there head.

 

[pete41]

Rumor has it the high country goldens are ``purty thangs'' but have no heart.Worth going up for the view but being cutthroat side of the rainbow family nothing to get excited about.[Big smile for Tom]So the rainbow mutants would be more desirable as a curiousity but the regular ones are more attractive.IMHO

 

[Padraic]

Salvi1 wrote:
Pad i of course thought of this but it was not stocked i can almost guarentee the riffles above and below this hole have been sooo low as in 2 inches that i thought it unlikely that it moved there this pool is 5 feet deep in drought conditions jayL the state does sometimes stock them in that small but no stocker here our club puts in 10 inch and well over on average very few smallies sneak into the mix...

S,

I always read that kind of thing as "the FBC doesn't intend to stock..."

For instance, they don't intend to stock rainbows in Clarks Creek, but I've caught them there. And they don't intend to stock 3" fish, but I've helped with stocking and saw them that small in the buckets. Fish jump from one raceway to another in the hatcheries. Rainbows get mixed in with other species, little fish get mixed in with the big ones, etc. And trout can make it past shallow riffles, etc. Stocked trout move miles when they are introduced to the stream. I still think this is much more plausible than genetic mutation of a rainbow, or a streambred palimino.

 

[sdwlucas]

Last year I was fishing just downstream of SRC on the Lil J and saw a golden that looked to be about 4 or 5 inches swimming through the current, I tried to catch it to see if it really was. I was pretty much right over top of it and saw that it was a trout.