Stocking Wild Trout Streams

PocketWater

PocketWater

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https://vimeo.com/123030884

I came across this video on Montana's wild trout population, and how it used to be pretty much like Pennsylvania's. The trout population was diminished, so they started stocking the streams which hurt the population of wild trout even more, until a biologist did a study and found that the wild trout populations exploded when the stockings stopped.

My question is, if there is some scientific evidence out there that this is indeed true, why would Pennsylvania's Fish Commission continue to stock wild trout streams?
 
The topic of comparing MT's fishery with PA's wild trout fishery has generated much discussion here over the years.

While an interesting comparison (I'm certainly in the camp that would like to see less stocking here in PA) I think many of us regard the comparison as apples to oranges.
PA ain't MT.
 
PA has moved somewhat in that direction, starting around 1980, with Operation Future. They surveyed the stocked trout streams. Most (not all) of the Class A streams were taken off the stocking list.

Since then, some Class Bs have been removed. And some wild trout streams were taken off because they were very small, got low usage, and were in remote places with bad forest roads that make it expensive to reach with the hatchery truck.

But there still is a very large mileage of wild trout waters stocked by both the PFBC and the coop hatcheries.

It's a political football. There are people who want more of the wild trout stream mileage taken off. And there are people, many organized in sportsmens clubs who want those streams to continue to be stocked, and they work with their legislators who are on the fish and game committees, and they put pressure on the PFBC.

Exactly how the political situation is different in Montana and some of the other states that have gone further in the wild trout direction, I'm not really sure.

Because in any place where trout are stocked, there will be a constituency of people who want that to continue. That is not unique to PA.




 
troutbert wrote:
PA has moved somewhat in that direction, starting around 1980, with Operation Future. They surveyed the stocked trout streams. Most (not all) of the Class A streams were taken off the stocking list.

Since then, some Class Bs have been removed. And some wild trout streams were taken off because they were very small, got low usage, and were in remote places with bad forest roads that make it expensive to reach with the hatchery truck.

But there still is a very large mileage of wild trout waters stocked by both the PFBC and the coop hatcheries.

It's a political football. There are people who want more of the wild trout stream mileage taken off. And there are people, many organized in sportsmens clubs who want those streams to continue to be stocked, and they work with their legislators who are on the fish and game committees, and they put pressure on the PFBC.

Exactly how the political situation is different in Montana and some of the other states that have gone further in the wild trout direction, I'm not really sure.

Because in any place where trout are stocked, there will be a constituency of people who want that to continue. That is not unique to PA.
Click to expand...

^ Excellent (and unbiased, IMO) summation of the State of the Union of trout management in PA.

 
I should have mentioned that in the political process, while the sportsmens clubs represent the keep stocking wild trout streams position, the other side is represented by Trout Unlimited.

Trout Unlimited supports the shifting of hatchery trout from wild trout streams to other waters.

Join up, if you are not already a member.

Also, as citizens, we all have the right to be part of the political process. You can send your views to: the PFBC, the PFBC Commissioner in your region, your area fisheries manager, your legislators.

 
There will always be people that would rather catch an 11 inch stocked trout than a 6 inch native or wild brown. That population spends a lot of money on licenses and making them angry is one of the last things the fish comm wants to do. IMO
 
PocketWater wrote:

My question is, if there is some scientific evidence out there that this is indeed true, why would Pennsylvania's Fish Commission continue to stock wild trout streams?
Click to expand...

I ask myself the same question. There is even plenty of evidence in PA, with Spring Creek being the most recognizable.

The bottom line is, and it was apparent when they voted for Class A stocking (despite 257 against 10 for, comments) that our commissioners don't care about wild trout or a self-sustaining fishery. The majority of people want instant fisheries and that's who the PFBC is going to cater to. Commissioners aren't scientists, or are they required to have any background in the field. They're basically stakeholder representatives. #ResourceFirst. #PAain'tMT.


 
There are still a lot of waters in PA that would benefit from the cessation of stocking, Or at least that is what I believe. Plus, I think that all things closer to a natural start are more enjoyable.
 
Thanks for the responses. It is pretty crazy to think they open up an avenue for comments, get 257 against and 10 for, but then do what the 'for' people want.

I have seen a lot of folks saying that the commission has stocked fewer trout lately. Seems it would make sense to take the fish you stock in wild trout streams and put them in the other streams. Especially if the population of wild trout would blossom in the wild trout streams.

Troutbert - I am not a member of my local Trout Unlimited, but think I am going to join. After growing up fishing Raystown Lake for stripers and bass my whole childhood and teen years, then moving to Raleigh NC, then to downtown Pittsburgh, I kind of stopped fishing because I didn't really know where to go and around the city it seemed useless. But I had always had a desire to learn to fly fish and last year after I got a bonus at work I decided to pull the trigger and got my first setup. After my first trip out I was addicted. Took me a while, but I have learned a lot about the streams in the area and about Trout Unlimited so am going to look into it.
 
troutbert wrote:
PA has moved somewhat in that direction, starting around 1980, with Operation Future. They surveyed the stocked trout streams. Most (not all) of the Class A streams were taken off the stocking list.

Since then, some Class Bs have been removed. And some wild trout streams were taken off because they were very small, got low usage, and were in remote places with bad forest roads that make it expensive to reach with the hatchery truck.

But there still is a very large mileage of wild trout waters stocked by both the PFBC and the coop hatcheries.

It's a political football. There are people who want more of the wild trout stream mileage taken off. And there are people, many organized in sportsmens clubs who want those streams to continue to be stocked, and they work with their legislators who are on the fish and game committees, and they put pressure on the PFBC.

Exactly how the political situation is different in Montana and some of the other states that have gone further in the wild trout direction, I'm not really sure.

Because in any place where trout are stocked, there will be a constituency of people who want that to continue. That is not unique to PA.
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said it better, I will add, seems PFBC is stepping back a bit from Resource First, first with the stocking of Class A streams, nearly all of which are in the Lehigh Valley, but also with the changes in regulation not related to wild trout.
 
Pocketwater:

I am curious whether the existence of Fly Fishing Only waters influenced your decision to take up the long rod.
 
I'll bet it did.
 
Joining a TU chapter is a great step. The pfgc has sent educated people to other states who's trout population is stable or growing. Then they came back and stocked wild trout streams. I guess the old adage of ' just because their educated doesn't mean their smart "comes into play. When was the last time you read a post that said :" going to Leola , Pennsylvania in June to fish for trout what flys should i take"? nuff said
 
JackM - No it did not. I only know of one such place within an hour of me, on Slippery Rock Creek, and I have never done well there. I just always wanted to try fly fishing from the time I was a kid. I liked the way it looked. But, my father had all spinning and baitcasting gear and he didn't fly fish so that is the gear I had to use. That is, until I realized while living in my cement, urban surroundings, that I was missing the outdoors, and fishing specifically so started researching what all streams were around Pittsburgh PA.

I do enjoy some of the local DHALO sections though, for sure. And have found 3 or 4 native streams that I enjoy getting out on, mostly for the solitude in the woods.

Also, I'll add, I really enjoy what I guess I would phrase as 'the process' of fly fishing, if that makes sense. I always had a curiosity with insects even before I fly fished. Had a bug collection I started in my mid 20's as something to do. So the aquatic entomology of it is appealing to me. Not to mention I am pretty artistic and just started tying flies this past winter but picked it up rather quickly.

Just having a fun time all around with fly fishing. Wish there were some nicer waters a little closer to me but that is life. I'll drive.
 
PocketWater wrote:


Just having a fun time all around with fly fishing. Wish there were some nicer waters a little closer to me but that is life. I'll drive.
Click to expand...

Well we all know where you live now... :-D
 
Put it this way, I can see the top of one of PNC Parks light towers as I sit here listening to the Pirate game on my porch. I guess I could always tie up some chicken liver imitation flies and soak them in rotten chicken a few weeks, then tie on a big fat splitshot right down over the hill in the Allegheny hahaha.
 
I will do you one better...tie up some sulphurs and hexs and make a trip to the rivers edge on a cool night from May thru August...Take the 6 wt.
 
Maybe I'm ignorant, or I just don't get it, but apart from PA geographically not being MT, and whatever political crap there is behind the scene, if we truly were a RESOURCE FIRST state, why wouldn't Montana's approach to wild trout management work in PA? Why wouldn't adopting a policy that ceases stocking over all viable wild trout populations work in PA?

Not looking for a political answer, I'm not looking for some cheap crap about license sales (because frankly, they had the same objections in Montana too). From a fishery management perspective, why wouldn't it work, and why shouldn't we do it?

And don't feed us any lines about stocking over wild fish not hurting the wild fish population. I just saw a pair of 10" natives on a stringer today from someone who I would be willing to bet an entire year's worth of pay checks would not have even fished that stream were it not stocked for "opening day" shenanigans.
 
Whenever I see someone keeping natives (which legally on a lot of streams your legally allowed) I always try to educate them on the fact that in many streams across the state there are populations of wild trout, how valuable of a resource wild trout are, the importance of protecting them so we can continue to enjoy their beauty. usually people have no idea there is such a thing as a wild or native trout in PA, but you always have some that want to keep every fish they catch.
 
I talked to him (he was a kid, wanted to know how I was doing). I told him he had some beautiful fish there. I asked, "Do you know the difference between the native brookies and the stocked bows?" He told me he did. Then he laughed and said, "The brookies are more tasty!"

I mean, I guess he's right!
 
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