"Stocking" Wild Fish

[Wildbrowntrout]

From my experience, the pond only reaches about 63 degrees. There is no stream inflow, but a spring from underground. The pond is smaller than you could imagine, maybe 40 yards x 40 yards. There is a lot of weed growth in it, so I can definitely see catching a bass or two from the other pond and putting them in there. I just don't know how much food is available, and I don't want to wipe them out totally. I will see if I can harvest some of them and see if it helps when I head back up in the fall.

 

[SteveG]

The sizes you listed for a pond that small are impressive. I think your limiting factors are water volume and temperature (which also affect inverts and other forage). I've always wondered if some regional brookies like coasters get larger due to having colder temps (volume also comes into play here).

You always hear about Maine beaver ponds filled with brookies the size you described. So, I think you're doing pretty good for PA. If I was in your shoes, the last thing I'd do would be to add bass or pickerel (as much fun as they are).

 

[OldLefty]

I had an acquaintance who's neighbor had a small pond with some nice brookies (reproducing population). At some point sunfish were introduced and, after a few years, the brookies were gone. Introduction of bass, pickerel or panfish will imperil that brook trout population.

 

[moon1284]

Above is correct. Sunfish/bass will outcompete brook trout causing their population to crash. Pickeral or northern pike would eat everything. I think your best bet to increase size is to harvest.

 

[Swattie87]

Honest question that I don't know the answer to...

Would LMB/SMB and/or Panfish thrive and grow properly in water that cold? The OP said the spring pond tops out at 63 deg or so in Summer. The preferred temperatures for Black Bass and Panfish are certainly warmer than that. Pickeral would probably do ok in those temps, but I question how the Bass/Panfish would make out.

(FWIW, I'm still in favor of harvest being the most effective tool to get the desired results here, and not risk the Brookies being driven out by another species.)

 

[Mwheaps32]

Sullivan county has some good beaver pond brookie fishing. I've had some great days on upper loyalsock tribs fishing the ponds.

 

[bigslackwater]

If you are going to introduce a predator, make it be YOU! You can control exactly how many fish you want to harvest... pickerel aren't going to be as cooperative. I'd start by harvesting a select number (perhaps consult a biologist on this) each year. Measure the fish you catch, keep records of everything. After a few years if there isn't much change, you could start harvesting more, or begin to feed them. I bet you can find a good balance between harvest and feeding the fish, to grow bigger fish and put fresh wild brook trout on your plate year round! You are very fortunate to have this pond!


Another possibility, what are the chances you could build a second pond? With a second pond (might also be spring fed) you could move fish from one to the other. Then you could keep the old pond for your "groomed" fish and the other one for the extras.

 

[RLeep2]

>>Honest question that I don't know the answer to...

Would LMB/SMB and/or Panfish thrive and grow properly in water that cold? >>

That's a good question to which all I have are anecdotally-based answers. Virtually all of the LMB I have caught from habitats with lower than average water temps for the species have been on average shorter and more chunky and usually, also more vividly colored than the norm. I can't remember any of them that did not seem pretty healthy and robust.

But none of these places are a spring pond like the one under discussion.

I would say though that I've caught LMB from a lot of places that really surprised me: In native brook trout streams within a quarter mile or so above or below a longstanding sizeable beaver dam, in small colder lakes on some of the small islands in Georgian Bay and quite a few other unlikely places.

I'd be hesitant to bet against life somehow finding a way, even in the spring pond under discussion..

 

[FarmerDave]

I didn't read all of the posts, but I can tell you that if you want to manage the pond for larger size, you DO NOT remove the largest ones. You remove as many of the medium sized ones that you can.

Slot limit.

Don't put the bass in there because they could take over.

Leave the larger brook trout as the main predators of the very small. Or, you could add a few Brown Trout, but make sure they are same sex to avoid them displacing the brook trout. If you stock females, you may even get some tigers out of it.

 

[troutbert]

FarmerDave wrote:
I didn't read all of the posts, but I can tell you that if you want to manage the pond for larger size, you DO NOT remove the largest ones. You remove as many of the medium sized ones that you can.

Slot limit.

Agreed. Most definitely.

 

[FarmerDave]

RLeep2 wrote:
>>Honest question that I don't know the answer to...

Would LMB/SMB and/or Panfish thrive and grow properly in water that cold? >>

That's a good question to which all I have are anecdotally-based answers. Virtually all of the LMB I have caught from habitats with lower than average water temps for the species have been on average shorter and more chunky and usually, also more vividly colored than the norm. I can't remember any of them that did not seem pretty healthy and robust.

But none of these places are a spring pond like the one under discussion.

I would say though that I've caught LMB from a lot of places that really surprised me: In native brook trout streams within a quarter mile or so above or below a longstanding sizeable beaver dam, in small colder lakes on some of the small islands in Georgian Bay and quite a few other unlikely places.

I'd be hesitant to bet against life somehow finding a way, even in the spring pond under discussion..

More anecdotal.

There are two ponds on my farm. The one in the woods sounds similar to your, except it isn't stocked with trout and not much weed growth. It is relatively cold, but also on the acidic side (about 6.0) from the leaves, and location.

Anyway, that pond was overpopulated with fish when I moved there. Was told there were bass in it, but when I drug some bass lures through it, nothing. I also noticed a lot of tadpoles and salamanders. I figured, no way could there be bass in it. Lots of green sunfish, pumpkin seeds, bluegills, etc, but no bass. And they were very small, especially the greens and pumpkin seeds. So, I tossed in a couple foot long bass from my other pond because fishing them out manually would be futile. Greens spawn up to three times a year. Followed that up with some channel catfish that I bought. I also started fishing out the small stunted fish. Low and behold, I started catching small bass, too. Sure enough, they were in there too, but also stunted. Also threw a 10 pound channel cat in there.

I also threw in some small yellow perch. I figured, why not. Toothy critters, they will eat some of those greens, too.

Added more brush for the perch.

A couple years later I saw what looked like a steelhead swimming around. Turned out to be one of those bass, and it had to be close to 2 feet long. Also saw that catfish, and it was quite a bit bigger. I started catching foot long perch, and even the green sunfish were much larger. Caught a couple 10 inch bluegills and average size bass. I also don't see as bad of winter fish kills. That first winter was crazy. Much better balance now.

I should mention that there are snapping turtles in there as well. If you can tolerate losing the occasional duck, leave the turtles alone. They are doing you a favor.

 

[Swattie87]

RLeep2 wrote:
>>Honest question that I don't know the answer to...

Would LMB/SMB and/or Panfish thrive and grow properly in water that cold? >>

That's a good question to which all I have are anecdotally-based answers. Virtually all of the LMB I have caught from habitats with lower than average water temps for the species have been on average shorter and more chunky and usually, also more vividly colored than the norm. I can't remember any of them that did not seem pretty healthy and robust.

My experience is generally the same. That's what I wanted to see if others noticed. They run small, but otherwise seem healthy. My guess is the low temps may stunt their growth as they don't hit that sweet spot in terms of temps for their peak metabolism. It's not that they can't or won't reproduce, just they won't hit their peak potential in terms of size.

I fish a pretty good Brown Trout stream that has a good sized pond or two in its headwaters. As you get up closer to the ponds you run into a rogue LMB or two in the stream that likely washed out of the ponds in high water as a youngster. There's one pool in particular where I've caught one on nearly every trip there. Stream probably tops out in the low 70's in mid-Summer during a heat wave.

 

[steveo27]

I agreed with the harvesting like most said. Instead of introducing a new predator to the ecosystem to control them, harvest some, that way you are in control of how many and what size fish are removed. Kinda the way the PGC wanted to control the deer size/population with selective harvesting.

 

[Wildbrowntrout]

Thank you guys for the replies, I believe that I will harvest some of the midsized fish to start. I don't think I want to introduce any brown trout, but it would be cool to have some tigers in there. As far as a biologist, does anybody know of a group that will survey a one acre pond in Sullivan county? It's not the same lake but the bass seem to have the same problem and the water gets extremely cloudy in the summer. It would be nice to know what can be done about that, if anything. Thanks again guys!

 

[FarmerDave]

Wildbrowntrout wrote:
Thank you guys for the replies, I believe that I will harvest some of the midsized fish to start. I don't think I want to introduce any brown trout, but it would be cool to have some tigers in there. As far as a biologist, does anybody know of a group that will survey a one acre pond in Sullivan county? It's not the same lake but the bass seem to have the same problem and the water gets extremely cloudy in the summer. It would be nice to know what can be done about that, if anything. Thanks again guys!

I'm not a biologist, but I did stay in Holiday Inn Express a few times.

"Cloudy" is usually not a bad thing for bass.

Too clear is a problem with bass. It means the pond lacks nutrients which are the bottom of the food chain. Almost every pond that I have seen with stunted fish, was also relatively clear. I remember a couple that were gin clear.

Then again, if it is just muddy, then you may have carp, goldfish, or something else in there stirring it up.

An old friend managed his own farm pond for bass (may he RIP), and he had some big ones in there. He used to say that you hold a silver dollar in your hand, then submerge up to your elbow. If you see what it is, then you need to add fertilizer. No idea what fertilizer he used, but they probably have actual pond fertilizer.

Don't worry Chaz, it was a spring fed isolated pond in the middle of his fields.

He also used to tell us to KEEP all the bluegills that we caught. If we didn't want to take them home, then toss them in the field.

You can likely get information for managing ponds from the PF&BC. If not, you can get it from ODNR, or any number of commercial hatcheries.

In fact, there are pond management companies out there that will survey the pond and check the water and make recommendations for a fee. I can't recommend anyone because I never used one, but I know they are out there. I drive past one on my commute every day. A google search should turn up a few companies.