"Stocking" Wild Fish

Wildbrowntrout

Wildbrowntrout

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Aug 10, 2013
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Location
Berks/Tioga County
I have a pond in Sullivan County with stunted brook trout, all 8-12" in length, and I want to grow some of them bigger, but to do so I need to get rid of some of the bigger trout. The fish were fished out of a nearby creek many years ago and they have reproduced naturally in the pond. My plan is to catch some of the larger fish, and put them into the creek in some of the bigger holes. I have kept in mind water temperature, and it stays relatively the same in the month of May. My question is, is it a good idea to be moving these trout back to the creek, or will they not survive because of the current constantly pushing on them vs. Stillwater pond. The creek supports both brook and brown trout. Also, I know there is plenty of food in the creek for these trout, as I have checked under rocks in the summer and winter finding all sorts of caddis and giant golden stones, along with many species of mayflies. I don't want to remove these trout and have them die, or severely damage the population of the trout in the creek. I will be putting them in a less populated area with some deep holes. Thoughts?
 
Why do you described the brook trout as stunted?
 
salmonoid wrote:
Why do you described the brook trout as stunted?

I have the same question. A 12 inch native brook trout in PA is an unusually large brookie.
 
Agreed. How big do you want them to grow?

Send the big ones you have my way, Ill make sandwiches outta all of em
 
I say stunted meaning they are stuck at the size they are at now. They have much more potential to grow larger in this pond, but there are so many in a little pond that they can't grow anymore. Some of the larger ones have heads that are too large for their body, like they are malnourished.
 
Sounds like if you would start to feed them. They may get bigger but 12 in is a great size for them. They shouldn't have any trouble in the creek since there are spots to hide. Just make sure the creek your throwing them in is big enough.
 
steveo27 wrote:
Send the big ones you have my way, Ill make sandwiches outta all of em

Good call. They're too big for Gemmie fries at that size. Yet still to small to get a proper filet off of them. Perfect size for stuffin' with lemon wedges and onion slices though.

To the OP - I'm with Dave. I'd leave em be. Or in all seriousness, harvest a few for the table. I'm not quite sure on the legalities of transporting (stocking) fish from one body of water to another without the proper permitting. (It may be perfectly ok in your instance, I honestly don't know. But I'd check up on it before doing it.)
 
I have kept in mind water temperature, and it stays relatively the same in the month of May.

More importantly, what are the temps and flows like in the dog days of July & August? Sounds like you'd be better off culling the pond population for a bit of table fare as suggested above.

Besides, from Page 9 of the Rule Book:

It is Unlawful:
• To release any species of fish, except those listed as approved by the Fish & Boat Commission, in Commonwealth waters without written permission from the executive director of the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission.
 
Trout and char (brook trout are char), like most fish, have what is called indeterminate growth. Given plenty of food, protection from predators and suitable habitat, they will grow very large very quickly, stopping only when the physiological limitations of their body configurations will allow no more. At this point, they die. With largemouth bass, this is why the world record largemouth bass has peaked between 20 and 25 pounds with the most recent records all being egg-filled females.

Stunted growth, which has that big head syndrome you described, relates to a lack of food, or in certain instances involving trout, a failure of the fish to make the transition from eating insects and other low-calorie/high effort foods to eating minnows and crayfish, which are high effort by even higher calorie foods. Dr. Bob Bachman, who served as Maryland's head of cold water fisheries for several years, did his graduate work in Pennsylvania and documented this failure-to-switch phenomenon.

Anyhow, in your case, if the brookies are able to spawn in your pond, I'd venture the water is very clear, the bottom gravel very clean and the year-round temperature relatively cold. These provide ideal habitat for brook trout, but not so much for the food they eat. There's a good chance they'd eat whatever they can catch, be it bugs, minnows, crayfish or even mice.

Further complicating the issue is an as yet undocumented element attributed to the brook trout life cycle south of Maine and Labrador. Fred Mather, a pioneer in the field of raising trout and other fish in hatcheries and the fellow to whom Friedrich Karl Gustav Felix von Behr gave the first in North America shipment of brown trout, wrote a lot about raising brook trout in hatcheries.

He made the claim that Seth Green, another fish culture pioneer, was responsible for selectively breeding a short-lived strain of brook trout that has come to dominate the waters of the eastern U.S. What you need to know about this story is it is suspect because Mather did not get along with Green. Mather thought Green was a glory hound; Mather could be similarly described, but he never achieved the public acclaim of Green in the late 1800s when they were both doing similar work.

Anyhow, the story goes that Green selectively bred a strain of brook trout that, when well fed, will grow to three pounds within three years. Unfortunately, they die at the end of their third year. Green's acclaim, Mather hints, resulted in these brook trout being widely stocked and supplanting strains of longer-living brook trout that may or may not have grown as quickly.

It turns out, regardless of whether Green is the culprit, many strains of Eastern brook trout only live three or four years. This may, however, be not so much the result of selective breeding but because of the physiological strains of an arctic species having to survive the hot summers of the Appalachian Mountains. Or maybe some other factor. Keep in mind that pink salmon have a natural two-year life cycle and they only grow to between three and five pounds.

The buzzword in brook trout fisheries management these days is heritage-strains. If you do a google search on "heritage strain brook trout," especially in quotation marks, you'll turn up a lot of fish-nerd research.

As for your problem, I'd have to echo the thoughts of the fellow who observed that a 12-inch wild brook trout is about as good as it gets in these parts. Heck, I caught one about 13 inches last summer at Boiling Springs that was clearly a stocked fish and it was as big a brook trout as I have caught in 20 years. I was tickled to be able to land it.

It might not hurt to thin the herd a little bit, as you suggest, but the minute you start messing with he balance of a pond with the rare ability to support a still water breeding population of brook trout, you run the risk of destroying something good, even as you were trying to make it better.

If it were me, I'd say the perfect is the enemy of the good and leave the good thing you have to perpetuate itself!
 
If fished out of a small stream, 8-12" may be about how big you can expect those fish to get.

It's not just a matter of food availability. Genetics plays a big role. Not all populations of native brookies are created equal. PA originally had a number of different strains, that were quite well suited genetically (in size and temperament) to the particular waterway they inhabited. Some populations had different growth characteristics, food needs, spookiness, and propensity to travel than others.

Those big river brook trout in Labrador? Yeah, put a PA freestone brookie in those same rivers and it doesn't get that big. Just like lake run rainbows in Erie didn't get as big as the steelhead strains they stock now. And why if you take wild trout eggs and raise them in a hatchery, they won't grow as fast as the hatchery strains, if they survive at all.
 
As to your request for advice, I suggest contacting the AFM for your area and run your ideas past him or her. As this wild brook trout pond would be a fairly unusual occurrence, I think their interest would be considerable and they may well be willing to provide some onsite guidance no charge.

Even with stocking going on, larger wild brook trout reproducing in a pond is something I would want to see and I am sure they would as well, schedule permitting.
 
Would you consider hosting a Gemmie JAM at said line?
 
So from what I understand, I should most likely get some help from a FM or biologist. Keep in mind, these trout were from the creek originally, and were put in the lake maybe 20-30 years ago by an older man. They have since reproduced and there are plenty of fish in there. Would the genetics change over time since they are adapted to the pond, or would they know what is food elsewhere?
 
They'd likely be somewhat adapted and genetically geared toward life in still water, and less likely to outcompete the fish in the stream environment. I think, I dunno I guess. On the other hand, they'd have a size advantage, at least over the Brookies in that stream, less so probably on the Browns. My guess is some, but not all, would figure it out and make it to reproduce successfully in the stream.

The PFBC may not want those narrowed genetics being reintroduced into a stream that already has wild Brookies. Again, I dunno.

If you're definitely going to cull the pond, and want to let the fish removed live, I still think talking to a professional biologist from the PFBC is the safest bet. Another option...They may point you toward a TU project or something where they're trying to restablish a Brookie population in a formerly degraded stream. They could be very valuable in an effort such as that.
 
perhaps there are too many. they may have stopped because the system can only support a certain mass. Pat's post is pretty logical too. thin the heard. if they are stunted its probably because either that's how big they've been bred to get because they come from a small environment (stream) or because you need a bigger pond with more food. i know some really big lakes out west where they've stunted due to overpopulation. brookies can breed in the gravel shallows, so basically anywhere. too may makes them stunt. maybe they need a predator.
 
Sounds like what you need are a few good sized Brown Trout.

And come to think of it, who doesn't?
 
Harvesting or a predator was my first thought also. Whether yourself, browns, bass, or maybe pike/pickerel. Ideally you may want to stock a predator in there that you know won't reproduce. That way you can see what happens without permanent consequences, and then go from there.
 
Given that it is a pond you can be pretty sure that LMB would certainly be predator that would reproduce in the pond. Pickerel I'm sure would do the same, especially if there is good weed growth in the pond. Pickerel and LMB are obviously fish that are both very attracted to aquatic vegetation. Channel catfish, however, needs specific things such as tight, enclosed quarters to spawn. So if there isn't tires, barrels, buckets etc in the pond they most likely won't be able to spawn. Hollowed out trees are another option they naturally have to spawn in but I doubt your pond has a ton of dead, hollow trees in it. I think a few channel cats would be the perfect predator to put in your pond and they would certainly chow down on some small brook trout. They are obviously a fish that prefers warmer temps, so what do you think the pond temp gets to be throughout the summer months?
 
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