Stocking Class A's

[afishinado]

Interesting article from Troutbitten >


https://troutbitten.com/2020/04/12/the-mismanagement-of-class-a-wild-trout/

 

[Baron]

Controversial subject bound to get the Hackles up on some folks.

 

[wildtrout2]

Controversial as it is, that commentary was spot on. I'm sure TB will agree.

 

[troutbert]

What we do: Unorganized individuals express our views on internet.

What other side does: Through their organizations (sportsmens clubs), lobby the Fish Commissioners and state legislators.

You can guess which is more effective.

 

[larkmark]

What about TU?

 

[rrt]

t/b is right. I remember when the right hand branch of Young Woman's Creek was managed as a Class A/high Class B wild trout stream. I enjoyed making day trips there to fish for these lovely wild brook and brown trout.

Then a sportsmen's group in the area lobbied and had the stream "lightly" stocked. I guess it made a nice place for them to fish. I know a few people who frequent this site still go there and catch a mixture of slimy rainbows and wild trout. I, however, no longer drive 100 miles to fish YWC; I could fish for hatchery dumbbells around home.

I don't think surveys after the stockings ever raised YWC to its former wild trout levels. I imagine the stocked trout negatively influenced the wild trout as studies have determined that stocked trout do.

Anyhow, that is sthe mosst egregious example I can think of.

 

[salvelinus]

Same thing happened to Cross Fork. Some "sportsmen".

 

[outsider]

My cabin is located 20 minutes from Cross Fork Creek and 35 minutes from Young Womans Creek. They were both favorites of mine, and I fished them a lot since the early 70's. But the stocking of rainbow trout is not the primary reason for the reduction of ST in the past several decades. The culprit is drought and thermal pollution. About 10 years or so ago I had a conversation with the NCPA Fisheries Manager and he told me the lower half of both creeks only support warm water species. That is what I was finding for years, the lack of ST in the lower regions.

I posted this information on this forum before, and Mike chimed in, as he did participate in the shocking/surveying. Not to say you wont find a few ST in the lower regions and it varies from year to year.

 

[outsider]

One more thing: They really don't stock a lot of rainbows in Cross Fork Creek. They stock 2 places: Windfall Run and the snowmobile bridge which is located at the lower end. My wife doesn't get around very well, so she would sit on the snowmobile bridge while I fished there for a while. I called it the bow pen, as those fish huddled in a mass at the downstream right side of the bridge facing upstream. Go back there 3 weeks after they stocked and there they were. Nice water upstream with very few fish. It was kind of pathetic. I'd catch 20 or more fish in short order and get tired of it.

By the way, there is no right hand branch of Young Womans Creek. There is only YWC and the left hand branch. The special regs area is located on YWC.

 

[RLeep2]

That's interesting stuff, Outsider.

Two years ago, when I was on YWC in the big pool at the USGS gauge, I found a half dozen smallmouth skeletons with the fillets removed sitting in the water close to the bank. For what it's worth, they were nice bass in the 14-15" inch class. I thought maybe someone caught them out of Sinnemahoning Creek or the West Branch below Lock Haven and, for whatever reason, brought them to YWC to clean and eat.

Now, I'm not so sure where they came from..

 

[troutbert]

outsider wrote:

About 10 years or so ago I had a conversation with the NCPA Fisheries Manager and he told me the lower half of both creeks only support warm water species. That is what I was finding for years, the lack of ST in the lower regions.

Can you explain further?

Is the claim that the lower halves of these creek only support bass, panfish, chubs, not wild trout?

Or are wild brown trout being labeled as "warm water species?"

 

[outsider]

The survey's showed there wasn't a sustainable population of cold water species. Like I said, there were fluctuations where some cold water species could migrate downstream and exist. This all broke my heart, as I built my cabin at a strategic location to drive to several streams under an hour. Slate Run is just under an hour. The Hammersley is 10 minutes or so and the East branch Sinnemahoning Creek DH about 35 minutes or so. All depending on how fast I chose to drive. In the 70's I drove at light speed on dirt roads.

 

[riverwhy]

So what changed. Something in the stream or warmer climate?

 

[outsider]

Climate change, which changes the stream.

 

[pcray1231]

What changed? When they survey is a big part of it likely.

1. The lower end of those streams was always rather seasonal. Fish migrate as water temp changes. There's very old writings, like mid 20th century, that describe that phenomenon.

2. A drought year or 2 can really put a hurting on such places. String a few wet years together and it can change in a hurry. Unless, of course, there's some other impediment which keeps it from recovering.

3. I certainly have no proof. But I often suspect political agendas. If fishery managers are under pressure to stock, and they want to cater to that pressure, they will choose what years and what time of year to survey to get the results they want. A whole lot of class A streams aren't ALWAYS class A in every section. And a lot of class B's may be class A sometimes.

 

[outsider]

I've fished those streams a zillion times since the early 70's. I lived and breathed it. I started noticing the difference before the turn of the century. I kept monitoring it for a long period of time (at least a dozen years, which prompted me to contact Jason (NCPA fisheries manager). My findings paralleled the fish commission findings. On a regional basis it was within the Kettle Creek basin and east to the Young Womans basin. My friend Jack Mickievicz monitored the rainfall there, and the results were uncanny how that area was affected and different than surrounding areas. Again, I will state the stocking of RT is not even close (by a very large margin) to the stocking in the 70's and eighties. They really loaded those streams with browns and rainbows, browns much more so than rainbows. Political? I don't think so, and i witnessed it all first hand.

 

[outsider]

Another stream I forgot to mention: Trout Run, a tributary to Kettle Creek which flows into Kettle Creek a few miles above Kettle Creek State park. Oh, the water looks so good in the lower section, but the density is poor at best compared to where Wycoff Road meets Trout Run Road and above. The fish commission hasn't stocked that stream in many years, and i don't catch bows or browns in the lower section except at the junction of Kettle and Trout Run. Years ago there were ST in the lower region.

 

[rrt]

Well, what outsider says about YWC is quite interesting. It makes me glad I have not driven up to YWC since they began stocking it. Catching smallies in that lovely stream would be heartbreaking. I am really sorry to read this.

(I didn't realize that the right-hand branch of YWC was not called the right-hand branch but rather was the mainstem. I think from when I was young -- a long time ago -- I always knew it as the RHB. I stand corrected.)

 

[rrt]

Have to admit I was curious about how/why I always referred to the YWC mainstem as the RHB. I found these. The old Mike Sajna guide lists it as the Right-hand Branch of YWC. The Meck and Wolf guides refer to it as the Right Branch. Interestingly, the recent Keystone Fly Fishing guide does not refer to it as the RB or RHB.

I am guessing that back in the day when I was young I heard others refer to it as the RHB and read material that also referred to it that way. So, those are my reasons (or excuses) for my calling the mainstem the Right Hand Branch of YWC.

Anyhow, this is really off the topic of stocking over wild Class A trout populations which, I agree, should not occur.

 

[rrt]

Finally located my last guide (Landis). He does not refer to the main branch as the RHB. So, the two most recent guides have referenced YWC as Outsider says is proper.

Again, sorry I went off topic but am even sorrier to read that YWC is apparently not the wonderful wild trout stream that I remember it being, which is a real shame.