Stocked trout don't die

[jifigz]

troutbert wrote:
Stocked trout survive through both the summer and winter much better in limestone streams than in freestone streams.

In my experience the percentage of stocked trout that survive through the winter in freestone streams is very close to zero.

But they can survive through the winter in limestone streams. The conditions are much more favorable.

Just one example, but the rainbows hold over and survive in East Licking Creek with ease. I'm fact, they are extremely abundant in there and probably push the native brookies out. I tend to see far fewer wild browns holdover there and encounter a percentage of wild browns instead.

 

[silverfox]

Maurice wrote:
DW,

Take another look at that pectoral fin. The edge looks like the fingernail of a nervous junkie in a police station.

Regardless, it is still an incredible unlikelyhood tha a stream with no documented wild rainbow population, or class C brown trout would have this over proportioned wild rainbow with no others present or caught that day within the dozens handled.

Again, a unicorn of a stream with a unicorn fish.

That is all I have to say about it.

Maurice, are you talking about the white leading edge of the anal fin? I think almost every wild rainbow I've caught has had a white leading edge and fin tip on the anal fin and usually pelvic fins as well. The pectoral fins look clean and full to me, so I'm thinking it's typo?

Again, based on what I know now, this was probably stocked as a fingerling and grew out in the stream taking on a wild appearance. She fought like a wild fish too!

 

[Jessed]

So basically what I got from this post is that if a stream was capable of holding bigger browns or bows through summer and winter it would. And the reason they die is because they don’t have enough good habitat, food , water temp and flows. Otherwise they would support wild fish that size?

 

[bigjohn58]

I feel that as long as the food is there in streams and the water temps do not get too warm the stocked trout have no issue holding over. They adapt to their environment. I caught several stocked rainbows this weekend that were all stocked probably last spring.

 

[JeffK]

Plus trout move. One stream I fish they move to shallow, riffle areas with limestone springs in the summer, but move into some warm dark bottom downstream pools in the winter that never see a trout in the summer.

I am with the summer is tougher. In hot, dry summers I watch trout and they seem to get thinner and paler as the season progresses and then they start disappearing. Wet summers allow a lot more trout to survive in marginal waters.

That said, when I am Senko fishing for smallmouth in the summer I commonly catch rainbows or browns depending on the stream, so some trout are pretty tough.

 

[MD_Gene]

After Maurice's post I'd like to say, "Again with the negative waves Moriarity". Kidding aside, I know he has vast experience in this area. He has to be spot on. I helped the Muddy Creek team float stock the fish that they raised back in the early 2000's. They do good.

 

[krayfish2]

If I'm not mistaken, Mike a fisheries biologist has said on many occasions that stocked fish do not make it through the winter very well at all. others on here have stated that they make it through just time. I'm also sure that that same biologist has provided documentation that fish put in at a bridge only move a hundred yards while others want to hear say that they move. Which is right? I'm not sure about the wintering over I've stocked fish but I'm pretty confident that they don't really go anywhere once you stick them in. They're not the smartest and have little survival instinct

 

[Maurice]

silverfox wrote:

Maurice wrote:
DW,

Take another look at that pectoral fin. The edge looks like the fingernail of a nervous junkie in a police station.

Regardless, it is still an incredible unlikelyhood tha a stream with no documented wild rainbow population, or class C brown trout would have this over proportioned wild rainbow with no others present or caught that day within the dozens handled.

Again, a unicorn of a stream with a unicorn fish.

That is all I have to say about it.

Maurice, are you talking about the white leading edge of the anal fin? I think almost every wild rainbow I've caught has had a white leading edge and fin tip on the anal fin and usually pelvic fins as well. The pectoral fins look clean and full to me, so I'm thinking it's typo?

Again, based on what I know now, this was probably stocked as a fingerling and grew out in the stream taking on a wild appearance. She fought like a wild fish too!

Sil, I am talking about the pectoral, the jaggedness of the outer rim between the rays. Look at the flat, jagged edge pointing toward the eye. If this fish had been in the water even a couple seasons I would expect those edges to be smooth.

Furthermore, the anal fin is opaque or milky/leathery and for a fish this size 10-12” and wild I would expect it to be translucent. The white leading edges mean very little toward stocked and wild...streambred and farm raised.

None of these would be a dealbreaker on its own but add them all up and you are holding a stocked rainbow.

 

[bigjohn58]

krayfish2 wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, Mike a fisheries biologist has said on many occasions that stocked fish do not make it through the winter very well at all. others on here have stated that they make it through just time. I'm also sure that that same biologist has provided documentation that fish put in at a bridge only move a hundred yards while others want to hear say that they move. Which is right? I'm not sure about the wintering over I've stocked fish but I'm pretty confident that they don't really go anywhere once you stick them in. They're not the smartest and have little survival instinct

I fish a Class A stream that still gets stocked in a portion of it. I find rainbows MILES away up stream from where the stocking begins. I just fished this stream the past weekend and also caught several rainbows that you could still tell were stocked last spring. The rainbows outnumbered the number of wild browns I caught. The fins were rather stockie looking (no white tips, rather rounded, not brightly colored) but otherwise extremely healthy fat rainbows. As I stated before, biologist or not, if the food is there and the water temps stay where the trout need them to be then they will do just fine. I caught the fish and saw first hand...you don't need a biologist in those situations.

 

[MD_Gene]

After Maurice's post I'd like to say, "Again with the negative waves Moriarity". Kidding aside, I know he has vast experience in this area. He has to be spot on. I helped the Muddy Creek team float stock the fish that they raised back in the early 2000's. They do good.

 

[Prospector]

As far as trout movement, I was a member of a club that ran a co-op nursery. When we had fishing derbies for kids a few fish would get tagged. If memory serves me, it was not uncommon for a tagged fish to cover several miles in a few days (maybe they knew everyone was after them . But as noted by other people’s experience, many trout didn’t travel very far.

Another thing Ive seen on Blue Jay Creek in Forest Co. Fish would be stocked on a Friday afternoon and a small hole might hold 50 trout until you quit at dark. Next day you return in the afternoon and the hole has zero trout.

Trout behave for different reasons in different places.

 

[bigslackwater]

My experience too is that winter usually kills them. I've seen surprising numbers in the fall after extremely hot and dry summers. after December, in to January, they disappear.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Winter factors that may affect trout "disappearing" form a stream or stream section: Anchor ice, migration, predation, mortality (caused by poor stream chemistry, lack of food, stress, etc.), and anglers harvesting. Feel free to add others I may have missed.

While trout are cold blooded, cold temps are not likely problematic as long as the water doesn't freeze or the temps don't drop too fast. The latter may cause stress which could impair a trout's ability to deal with other factors mentioned above. And, mild Summers and Winters are obviously conducive to better trout vigor and growth. Anything that stresses or exposes trout will leave them vulnerable to mortality based on the above adverse stream conditions.

Clearly, these factors will vary in importance based on the specific stream and winter conditions.

Summer high temps and low water seem like they would have a much higher impact on trout mortality because they should be more stressful (or fatal) and expose trout to greater predation, especially stocked trout that may not have adapted to the perils of stream life.

Bottom line, Winter is probably NOT killing trout. My guess is they moved or were preyed upon.

 

[Troutmeister]

In my experience it depends on the stream. In Lehigh County where I live there's a couple of heavily stocked streams. One has no survivors after summer, except possibly in the very lower part where they can move into bigger water downstream. Stream just gets too warm.

There's another one that I fished last Wed. 2-19. I fished a section of pools and pocket water that always hold fish in spring and summer without a hit. I got to a pool with some warmer water trickling in and it was loaded with fish. I caught 18 fish (all stockers from last spring) So I really think it depends on water temp and the ability of the fish to move to better habitat.

 

[Mike]

I had been watching two trophy golden RT in the Jordan Ck all winter. Jordan is a warmwater stream. Now it’s down to one GRT. They were in prime shape and apparently found one of the documented spring seeps during the heat and low flow of late last summer where limestone bedrock cuts across the stream. Since the GRT were only stocked preseason, they survived the opening day crowd and the high pressure in April and early May. They also had a few anglers consistently targeting them this winter. A great blue heron watches one from a log in the stream, but the fish is big and usually too deep for the heron to reach if it tried.

 

[afishinado]

bigslackwater wrote:
My experience too is that winter usually kills them. I've seen surprising numbers in the fall after extremely hot and dry summers. after December, in to January, they disappear.

Mike K, with his experience as a fisheries biologist for the PFBC wrote this a while back on here.

Mike wrote:
Stocked trout that become thin during the summer from going off feed rarely appear to recover in the fall and most likely largely pass away in the late fall or winter due to limited fat reserves. Since the thin ones have gradually died and the remaining fish are in fair to good condition, one must consider that this possibly gives one the impression that the formerly thin fish have recovered. As I have said previously, average annual mortality rates in Pa wild trout streams, for instance, are 60-65 percent.

 

[Troutmeister]

Mike, The first stream I was referring to in my post was the Jordan. Upper part above Wehr's and Kern's Dams has virtually no survivors.

The lower section there is some limestone influence and springs and the fish can move down into cooler water.

 

[silverfox]

Mike wrote:
I had been watching two trophy golden RT in the Jordan Ck all winter. Jordan is a warmwater stream. Now it’s down to one GRT. They were in prime shape and apparently found one of the documented spring seeps during the heat and low flow of late last summer where limestone bedrock cuts across the stream. Since the GRT were only stocked preseason, they survived the opening day crowd and the high pressure in April and early May. They also had a few anglers consistently targeting them this winter. A great blue heron watches one from a log in the stream, but the fish is big and usually too deep for the heron to reach if it tried.

I'm always amazed when the GBT (Great Banana Trout) survive much past stocking.

A buddy of mine has property on a fair stretch of a stocked trout stream and stocks it. He has about a 30" GBT that has survived for I think 3 years now. It's the spookiest fish I've ever seen. You can't get within 20 yards of the thing. It lives in a deep deep pool with a huge log jam and every year the kids try to catch it. This is on another "marginal" stream (not the one in my OP) that seems to hold a bunch of holdovers.

This other stream empties into a pretty good sized lake that also gets stocked and I think a lot of the trout in the stream come up out of the lake. That or the multiple people who stock it privately in addition to the state.

 

[Canoetripper]

I should really be able to put a lot of other above posts to the test now that it is the month of March. We all know that the month of March is full of teaser days like Monday-Friday when we get those sunny day 70 degree weather only to get smacked around with 27 degree cloudy damp and gray days on the weekends when we want to go fishing.

I have enough accumulated PTO days to do the mid-week warm March days and see if my theories about stocked tout surviving are correct.

They are that stocked trout in protected private water will hold over just fine if most of the R&G club practices C&R which they do since it is very expensive to stock in the first place. Everyone knows this.

Supplemental feeding stations through out the property also really help those very expensive trout survive.

I don't want to get clobbered by anyone else saying something like "Ph*ck You, CT and your private R&G club."

All I am saying is that quality stocked trout from well-managed private hatcheries can and do thrive in well managed streams where C&R is practiced by most members.

Poaching is a problem at every private club. Same thing with predators. Poachers know that they are breaking the law, predators are just looking for an easy meal.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I know that most reading my post have no interest in private clubs, but this is my new home and what I do.

 

[krayfish2]

I had been watching two trophy golden RT

That actually made me laugh out loud. Didn't know there was such a thing