State Forest Roads

[Dave_W]

How do they look in your neck of the woods?

I'm mainly out and about down here in Michaux and the roads seem to me to be a bit rougher than a decade or so ago. I can remember getting around and being able to get pretty much anywhere back in the 90s and, up until perhaps a decade ago, I could get around fine with my Mustang which had only a few inches of ground clearance.

While many of the roads in Michaux and other state forests I visit are still in good shape, I'm glad I've got a 4x4 these days and several sections of road I travelled today would not have been passable for me in a conventional auto, as they used to be.

I've long admired DCNR's efforts to keep our state forests accessible but, I suspect, budget cuts have taken their toll and the condition of the roads reflect this(?). Moreover, I think there are just more 4x4's out there these days and folks are really running these roads when they're muddy and this just hastens their decline. Sections where folks are clearly four wheelin are readily obvious as well. Last week, I saw some kids fly by me at a high rate of speed on ATVs (no helmets) on the roads where, I believe, they're forbidden.

Anyway, how do the dirt roads on state forests and SGLs where you hang out look? Are they in good shape? Are they getting worse? Thoughts?

 

[evw659]

I haven't traveled many sf roads this year, but I did go on one in particular about a month ago that I thought was in pretty bad shape relative to other sf roads I've been on in the past. It was Baker Run Rd. in Sproul sf, Clinton county. Small tributaries had eroded the road quite badly in a lot of places, and there were many deep mud holes along the way. There were a few sections where the road was sloped quite a bit towards steep cliffs with water running over the road, and really no gravel substrate. Pretty tricky navigating it. The road was carefully passable with a 4wd truck, but pretty dangerous in certain spots. There are a also a few stream crossings, one of which involves driving parallel and through baker run (not that small of a stream) for about 150'. This was my first time traveling this road, so I can't speak for what it's condition was like in previous years, but I didn't see anything that indicated there had been previous maintanence at least for a few to several years. It took us about 35 minutes to go 2.2 miles upstream from the mouth of baker run.

 

[Swattie87]

Good info on Baker...I have that pegged for a potential backpacking expedition this year. I have a 4WD Tacoma but 35 minutes to go 2.2 miles is almost walking pace. I'll probably park my commuter at the end lot off 120 and just walk in.

One really bad road I remember is Big Spring Rd. in the upper Right Branch Young Woman's watershed. Connects 12 Mile Rd. to Lebo Rd. I was heading downhill toward Lebo Rd. Glad I didn't run into another vehicle on that stretch as someone would be backing up a long long way. Nearly needed a chainsaw a couple of times too. Won't run that one again.

Generally I think most SF and SGL roads are in decent enough shape and run frequently enough that a 4WD or AWD with decent clearance will get you around fine.

 

[tomitrout]

Dave, curious where you've been seeing this in the Michaux? (Poor conditions, not the helmetless ATVer's, Darwin can handle that..) I can think of one or two troublesome spots up here in the northern end that I think were being fixed up after a few years of inattention...

Up in the Tuscarora, I ran across a grading crew a month or so ago tidying things up after the winter, and the roads I've been traveling up there have all been in pretty good shape....at least, nothing out of the ordinary.

Drive from 322 down to Poe Paddy was pretty nice last wknd, freshly redone. Also the alternate route I took home out along Havice Valley Rd towards Milroy was in good shape too...

 

[salmonoid]

Road conditions definitely depend on the way the winter and early spring go. Lots of freeze/thaw and I think you end up with a smeary mess that eventually ends up in water pits and washboarding. SGL roads are usually good, because they are often gated, except in the fall. I know of some roads that were pretty much destroyed (Truman Run road, Lycoming County), by fracking truck traffic.

Unfortunately have not been on many state forest roads this year, but generally, they seem to be cared for well enough that I tend to overdrive the speed I probably should be driving on them.

 

[troutbert]

Baker Run Road was also in bad condition in the 1990s.

But at that time you did not have to do any fording of the stream. The road went the whole way up to a gate, and you were on the left side of the stream (looking upstream) the whole way.

I haven't been up there lately as I don't have that type of vehicle. Where is the ford?

I don't think DCNR has any intent to maintain that road into the future. And they shouldn't.

That road should be totally eliminated, i.e. the road grade dug up and restoring the landscape to natural forest vegetation.

In cases like that, the road has created havoc for the stream habitat for ages. And there is only one way to restore the stream there, and that is to eliminate the road. This has been done in other places. And it is currently being done in WV, in the Monongahela National Forest.

You'll be hearing a lot more about "road ripping" as a means to stream restoration in coming years.

The problem isn't forest roads in general. It's forest roads that are in the floodplains of the streams. If you have a forest road in the floodplain, you basically have to keep the stream in a channelized, highly artificial condition. And that is what happens.

But overall in NC PA I think the forest roads are in decent shape, similar now, actually better, than they were in the 1990s.

 

[evw659]

tb, I would estimate the Ford to be about 1.3-1.6 miles upstream from where the road starts. The water was high when we were up there (it was May 12th I believe, i think most gauges were blue or black up there on the usgs water data map), so the stream crossing may not be one during lower flows. I believe I may have saw the gate your referring to about 1 mile up or so. It was old, rusting, and didn't appear to be still operable.
From a conservation perspective, abandoning the road and letting mn take over is a sensible idea imo, but then accessing upper baker, clendenin, and shoemaker would become a lot more challenging, and I don't know how many would do it. Ive accessed from rt 144, but it''s a decent hike over rough terrain along with driving on sf roads. I guess you could always close the road and make it a Pa Wild Area. I think that watershed is a good candidate for that designation.

 

[jifigz]

The roads of Rothrock, Bald Eagle, and the northern block of Tuscarora all seem in great shape to me.

 

[Acristickid]

Forbes State Forest seem in decent shape. Laurel Summit road gets lotsa traffic and is open in winter and that does a number on it. Other roads like Hickory Flats Rd are in good shape.

 

[JackM]

I have been on remote Township Roads, depicted in Delorme Atlas and probably other maps, that have been worse than most State Forest and Gameland Roads. I remember one that purported to link Wills Creek to Laurel Run. If it ever did, I don't know because I didn't dare look around, eyes fixed on the "road" ahead.

 

[troutbert]

evw659 wrote:
I haven't traveled many sf roads this year, but I did go on one in particular about a month ago that I thought was in pretty bad shape relative to other sf roads I've been on in the past. It was Baker Run Rd. in Sproul sf, Clinton county. Small tributaries had eroded the road quite badly in a lot of places, and there were many deep mud holes along the way. There were a few sections where the road was sloped quite a bit towards steep cliffs with water running over the road, and really no gravel substrate. Pretty tricky navigating it. The road was carefully passable with a 4wd truck, but pretty dangerous in certain spots.

There are a also a few stream crossings, one of which involves driving parallel and through baker run (not that small of a stream) for about 150'.

Is that even legal?

You might want to report this to the DCNR in Harrisburg. The district office probably already knows.

And also report it to the DEP, and the PFBC.

 

[CVangler]

In some of the areas I hunt and fish in Michaux, the roads are beautiful. But, some areas I too agree are very rough and nearly impassable except for an atv. I agree that it is most likely budget cuts and low manpower to improve the conditions.

 

[just_jon]

I've spent a lot of time hunting turkeys and fly fishing in Tuscarora this spring and have found the roads in excellent condition. Also hunted and fished Buchanan this spring and saw crews working on several roads that have been problems areas in the past decade. For some reason I have not made it over the mountain to Michaux this spring. in several years. Not seeing the turkey numbers there that I'm finding elsewhere. May have to check out upper Mountain Creek this week.

 

[ksherbine]

The road to Wills only goes a little bit and dead ends

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Both Mill Creek and Camels roads in Sullivan Co. near Hillsgrove were is muddy, slippery bad shape a few weeks ago. I've been driving those roads for decades and never saw them like that. They usually have a decent gravel bed with good traction.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Parts of mill creek road were gone from the flooding in October. Be thankful some of those roads in Sullivan and Lycoming county in that area are even driveable me this spring. Some areas were estimated to have gotten 8-10 in of rain in only a few hours. Pleasant Stream and mill creek looked like a bomb went off.