Spring & Fishing Creek Question

[swany50]

Hope to fish this season on Spring & Fishing Creeks and maybe Penns Creek. I've never fished them and was hoping to get some suggestions for leader and tippet sizes to use. I have an older LL Bean Double L 5wt 8.5 ft and a Sage Graphite II 4wt 9 ft. Would it make sense to fish with the 4wt and have the 5wt as a backup? I never been up in that area so instead of buying every size leader and tippet out there I was looking to just carry a couple sizes that would make sense for that area. Any other help would be appreciated also.
Thanks
Steve

 

[allan_s]

Carry tippet from 6x-3x and you will find that will work the same everywhere. 4 spools isn't really a big deal imo, no point in handicapping yourself.

Conditions will dictate what is the appropriate size.

 

[troutpoop]

I have used both an 8ft 4wt and a 9ft 5wt in these locations without much of an issue.
For leaders I'm a fan of furled leaders. I mostly throw dries and start with 5X, going to 6X often. If nymphing I go to a 4X.

 

[swany50]

Does leader length matter? I get the impression from other things I've read that 9ft & 12 ft should be used.

 

[McSneek]

swany50 wrote:
Does leader length matter? I get the impression from other things I've read that 9ft & 12 ft should be used.

I do all my fishing on Penns creek (and everywhere else for that matter) with a 7.5' 4x tapered leader. I add an additional length of 4x, 5x or occasionally 6x to that. Total length would rarely be more than 10' and usually much closer to 9' max if nymphing. 4X is fine for nymphs.

Either of your rods would be fine for Penns. I use an 8'6" Sage 5 wt. most of the time. If nymphing fast water you're going to have a decent amount of shot or other weight so the 5 wt. may be a better choice.

I think you will be fine on the other two streams as well with 7.5' leader and 4x, 5x and 6x tippet.

 

[kobalt335]

Either rod will work. As far as leader length and tippet goes, a 9ft 4x is a good base. Then you can just use that leader, or if you need to you can add a length of 5x onto that.

It's primarily going to be primarily a nymphing game and I have success on fishing and spring high sticking with a 12ft 4x leader with a red spot near the top so I can spot easy takes.

 

[dryflyguy]

I use a 9 foot leader on both creeks. Mainly because I use a 2 weight rod though. A 12 foot leader seems to be a bit much on such a light stick

 

[swany50]

This is all good stuff. I really appreciate it. Will definitely be taking your suggestions. Don't think I ever caught a trout over 10" fishing the Tully and Valley Creek. On those, I would only use a 7x or 6x. Down my way I seem to only find the little ones. Suggesting 4X & 5x for up there gives me hope for something bigger.

 

[pcray1231]

Honestly, like anywhere else, what you should use in terms of rod size, leader length, tippet sizes, etc. isn't so much a function of where you are, it's what you are using as far as tactics.

You can be tossing streamers on any of these. In which case, the heavier rod with short, stout leaders. 2x or 3x. Maybe 7 ft.

You could be deep nymphing, where the longer rod is better, and a 7-9 foot leader is fine. 4x or 5x.

You could be fishing trico dries in summer or midge dries in winter. In which case you want longer, lighter leaders on the lighter rod. 6x, and some guys go to 7x, in a 9-12 foot leader.

If you want a "jack of all trades" approach I'd recommend an 8 1/2 or 9 ft 5 wt rod, say, a 9 foot leader, tapered to 5x, with a willingness to play with the tippet end of the leader. i.e. shorten it a foot or so and down to 3x, or lengthen it a foot or two and up to 6x, or anything in between.

For tippet size, fly size is what tells you. Divide fly size by 4 and add one.

Size 8: 3x
Size 12: 4x
Size 16: 5x
Size 20: 6x
Size 24: 7x

For tweener sizes, you can go either way, depending on whether you want to error on the side of turnover and accuracy or on the side of drag free. Or go to the heavier side and add 6-12" to help with the drag end of things.

FWIW, I have plenty of experience on the Tully and Valley. I use 4x and 5x almost exclusively there without issue. The only exception iss trico spinners on the Tully, where I'd use 6x, or streamers in muddier conditions, where it's usually 3x. Since they're stocked, Tully fish will average bigger than Spring or BFC, but not as big as Penns fish. Of course wild fish have a bigger range, though. Valley Creek fish run small, there's a few decent ones in there but they aren't typical.

 

[swany50]

Pcray, thank you. Didn't know about the fly sizes to tippets size. The only place I've fished the Tully was below Reber's Bridge and never above. Maybe that's where I should be going.

 

[pcray1231]

For this conversation, it doesn't matter where on the Tully. They are stocked fish and most are in the 9-12" range and fat and stupid. The primary food item there is caddis, so you're playing in that size 14-16 range when dealing with nymphs or dries, and hence 4x or 5x. There are some mayflies, but of similar size. For the bows, I use a lot of egg patterns there too, and typically size 14ish with 4x. Tricos of course are big on summer mornings, and that's usually 6x, and when it's up a bit I'll go to 3x and streamers or big stonefly nymphs (as attractors).

 

[outsider]

The early season caddis on the Tully are size 14 and 16, but as the season progresses, size 18 and 20 caddis are most prevalent. There are size 14 and 16 sulphurs, but I have found through decades of fishing the Tully that the trout tend to ignore the duns.

 

[pcray1231]

Not the spinners, though.

 

[swany50]

Sorry but I'm full of questions. Would any of you have input as far as leader setup? Are you using mono, fluoro, braided leaders or a combo. Do you prefer one or the other? When would you use one over the other?

 

[bdfish]

I fish Penns and Spring more than other streams and I use a furled leader (5 or 7 ft.) with a small o ring and tie on 4 or 5 x tippet to my desired length. I purchase mine online at Feathercraft. I am successful with them. I primarily drift nymphs.

 

[kobalt335]

My nymphing leader for all these streams are a 7.5ft 0x leader. Thenot I attach about 1ft 2x umpqua indicator tippet. Thenot I attach a tippet ring to the indicator tippet. Then I attach whatever length and sizeof tippet I want (usually about 6ft and 4x).

This leader is really only good for high sticking nymphs as it doesn't turn over.

If I am fishing dries I start with a 7.5ft or 9ft 4x leader then add tippet depending on the size of fly I am fishing and how spooky the fish are.

As far as the tippet rings for dries, I've heard mixed things about them. Some people say they work great and others say the leader won't turn over with them attached. I have no personal experience casting dries with them.

 

[pcray1231]

Are you using mono, fluoro, braided leaders or a combo.

I'm a mono fan, while holding that fluoro does have it's time and place.

- I think the invisibility part is B.S.

- Regarding advantages and disadvantages, it goes something like this: Mono is more supple, and hence better for drag control. It has less memory, which makes fishing easier. Mono stretches more, which is like having a soft rod tip to absorb energy and protect tippets when a fish runs. It also degrades in UV light, which means when you drop that tag end you just cut off, or break a fish off, it won't be there 200 years into the future.

Fluoro has superior abrasion resistance. So if you are bottom bouncing on sharper rocks it does not weaken so quickly. It also does not break so easily when fish teeth rub against it. Fluoro does not soak up water, so after hours of fishing 5x is still 5x and doesn't turn into the diameter of 4x or 3x. Fluoro does not degrade in UV light, so that ancient spool in your pocket is still good. Fluoro does not stretch, which can be good for harder hooksets, and some say it allows more direct feel between you and what's on the other end.

Fluoro generally has a higher strength/diameter ratio. On the other hand, due to the stretch of mono, a sudden head shake or run will put less stress on mono, and in use many say it's stronger. And on the other hand, poor abrasion resistance of mono may mean it has more knicks in it and thus lowers it's strength.

Most of my fishing is smaller trout where drag is the enemy, hence my preference for mono, and more supple mono's at that. Don't get me wrong, though, if chasing trophy fish with their bigger teeth, or toothy saltwater fish, or if you're really dredging the rocks, fluoro has it's place. And, if you value that abrasion resistance AND still want the stretch, you can do that, just build the leader out of mono and use a fluoro tippet, but you still lose the micro drag control of a mono tippet.

 

[swany50]

This is all good stuff. I've learned more about fly fishing over the last few days from everyone's posts than I have since I began fishing. I've always had trouble trying to figure out my leader/tippet setup and everyone has really helped. Thank You.

 

[swany50]

Here's another question and maybe I should move this to the Beginner's forum but how do you know when you should switch to a different tactic. PCray and Kobalt you mentioned about changing your setup if the fish are being spooky or because of conditions. How do you know the fish are being spooky, not there or you're just not giving them the right offering? Also, how long would you go before trying something else like switching from a dry to a nymph?

 

[BrookieChaser]

On fertile streams. Nymph unless there is surface activity visible. Know your stream's aquatic macro invertebrate population being freestone or limestone. Be confident in your skills and chosen fish forage imitation (that'll come with time).
On surface activity, the fish will tell you what they want. If it's a splashy rise they're hitting emergers, if it's just a dimple they're taking the dun. The natural fly should be visible in the air, just catch one and match size and color as close as you can. It's presentation from there.