Speedwell Forge Lake: refilled last yr, fairly good bass fishing already

So my blunder was to rely on the guys who said they would show and didn't? I came with truck and trailer. Friend and i did quite a bit and then paid to dump it. No big deal.

The first dam to come out should be the one at Speedwell.....Oh that's right the PFBC just built/approved it! (the very group you will "partner" with i guess?) Now the homeowners down there can once again look at the sparkling water.

By the way I've been involved in actually filling gabions with rocks for days on end (whole summers in fact) and so do know a thing or two about what it actually involves in terms of $ and real work. I now think much of the so called stream improvement does more harm than good when looking at the big picture. As I said planting the right kind of trees is the single BEST thing that can be done to improve overall. Coming on strong with the landowners won't achieve much. I've seen what happens with that before. My casual conversations with 3 landowners up there lead me to believe someone really pissed them off.

Rather than continue boring thread i'll just say....You will get plenty of takers when offering free tips on where to catch the big ones and not so much on the litter clean up/tree planting patrol.

Go ahead and start yet another trout fishing club on facebook. (And be sure to use all that "networking" for the good of the streams and planet!) I'm not messing with picking up old tires from along the road anymore but I will pay for a bunch of trees if anyone REALLY is willing to plant them.
 
By the way sal....take a look at the very first posters to your new watershed club.....Guy bragging about catching and killing big trout in this creek.
See what you get with social media when you advertise?

Also that pile of tires has zero to do with the actual creek. It might make you feel good to clean it up but it won't help the trout.

Reading that old thread you linked I am again reminded how it works on here. someone suggests a simple clean up plan and then others chime in who actually have no real interest in helping. The task becomes OVERLY COMPLICATED to the point that NOTHING HAPPENS. Real simple folks....Rather than "organize" and make all kinds of emotional statements about "loving" watersheds , you can just clean up litter and be helpful in any way you can by yourself or with friends.

All the yacking (which I've heard on here from this same crew before) never results in squat.
 
Fox,

You should quit while you were just behind, you are about to be lapped.

By the way sal....take a look at the very first posters to your new watershed club.....Guy bragging about catching and killing big trout in this creek. See what you get with social media when you advertise?
Click to expand...
no one has posted anything of the such. That was a post I shared about the bass that someone else had put on facebook. "Advertising " had nothing to do with it. As far as the big browns, yes please remove those huge stockers and help the brook trout. You have no point here.

Your blunder was just showing up without anyone committing to a date time and meeting place. its very simple. no one in their right mind would show up at a place on a random date and time and expect people to be there.

Also that pile of tires has zero to do with the actual creek. It might make you feel good to clean it up but it won't help the trout.
Click to expand...

You mean the pile that includes waste oil buckets in the wetlands? Try again, you have no idea what you are even discussing or arguing.

We all agree that the first dam should be removed but that isnt going to happen now. I tried to convey that but the save the speedwell crowd was bigger than us. Where were you again?

Conservation organizations are not fishing clubs. I think you are confusing this fact. If i wanted to belong to a fishing club, Hammer had one in its headwaters and one below the turnpike. We are starting a group to help restore the creek. Pretty simple concept with complex issues you obviously cannot understand.

I'm not messing with picking up old tires from along the road anymore but I will pay for a bunch of trees if anyone REALLY is willing to plant them.
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So you wont mind helping pay for the tires, the front end of the truck, playground equipment and waste oil? If so, good ill get it all but ill need your cash upfront. At the very least I expect you now to buy trees when we need them since you committed

As far as stream improvements not helping anything, all i can do is laugh. That creek was not left in the condition it is supposed to be post dam removal. Its plain to see to everyone but you. I cant fathom how anyone can deny the massive amounts of scientific data that suggest post dam removal is not only good but necessary. This never happened.

All the yacking (which I've heard on here from this same crew before) never results in squat.
Click to expand...
Because we couldn't get support, where were you besides on some random creek at some random time. Now we are, you dont have to partake and you can whine all you want. That is your choice.

Rather than continue boring thread i'll just say...
Click to expand...
A whole lot of nonsense while continuing it obviously.
Maybe you should focus on changing your hiring practices of minorities rather than what we are doing. I know in the future, Ill be focusing on what I am doing and not what you are crying about.
 
The fish killers post is visible when I view your site for what its worth but you are good with him killing it anyway...

I take it you will be the CEO of your watershed group?
 
Where was the most obvious and convincing supporting evidence that trout were being consumed by bass if it was actually occurring?
 
My son and I watched a native get beached by 2 hungry stockers a few weeks ago. 2 friends got 40 bass and trout the other day right at the bridge at the county park.They were using worms and are hardly regular fisherman. I don't know how anyone could prove it. If there was ever a steam to do some surveys on , this would be one. I have a hard time believing the bass aren't going to town on them.
 
To find bass at the Speedwell Forge Rd bridge at the county park would not be unusual. It is effectively if not actually at the backwaters of the lake. The unusual occurrence of numerous bass, perhaps 1.2 miles or so upstream in the RT 322 area, is the oddity.
While the dam at 322 is gone, I thought that there was also one providing blockage at the conservancy property. Never having been on that property,,I may be wrong.

A survey, by the way, would not change whatever may be occurring. It is very unusual to find bass up a cool tributary to a lake other than in very sparse numbers, suggesting that this situation, as I previously mentioned, will eventually correct itself. The most interesting evidence of trout consumption by bass would have been an initial report of frequently seen trout in harvested bass stomachs or the regurgitation of trout by caught and released bass. This again would not have changed whatever is occurring, but it would have been interesting info.

As far as Speedwell is concerned, enjoy the "new lake" effect while you are blessed to have it. High catch rates in "new lakes" do not last forever. The next couple of years will be a golden opportunity for local anglers.

While I did not mention it before, the bass stocking rate used by the PFBC ( number of fingerlings per acre) was low at Speedwell. Some might have even called it very conservative. The source of the present 14-15 inchers is a mystery, however. All remaining bass stockings that were planned for Speedwell were cancelled about a month ago, prior to any knowledge of bass upstream in Hammer Ck.

 
There is no dam or blockage on the conservancy property.
I have not cut open any bass I harvested, though I should have. I dislike eating fish and gave them away.
Like I said I heard rumors about sportsman doing a stocking also but they may be rumors. That said, they came from somewhere and for some reason. Either someone put them in there or they migrated up. The only ponds north of there donot carry bass but are holding facilities for trout.
I may try to get you that evidence in a few weeks Mike. When Ad Crable was there he saw a group/pod of 7 bass at Walnut's mouth. No brook trout were there and there is normally a few. It was also interesting to see them and others upstream crash the shorelines for fish. I think exact evidence is unneeded to make this logical assumption. There is plenty of documentation about bass being introduced in Maine's brook trout waters and the problems they cause.
I may try to get you that evidence but see it as useless since nothing can be done anyways and it's just a logical conclusion based on the nature of the fish and the history of other states.
 
Feeling blessed to walk the creek with Ad(vertisement) Crable.
 
Mike,

Do you think maybe an issue with DO due to vegetation die off or growth could have forced some of the fish from the lake?
 
Seeking volunteers to rake dead vegetation out of Speedwell Forge Lake. Meet at boat ramp.
 
I have not seen much evidence of bass in the upper hammer prior to this year except in the fall. In the fall I have caught and seen a lot of bass in the big bridge pool. I assume they run up from the lake. There are always trout left in the fall but mostly natives. Caught a beautiful 15-16 inch native brown where the big tree crosses the stream a bit above the bridge. This spring I only fished a couple times and didn't see that many fish. When hatches are on, a surprising # of natives suddenly show up.How they survive the onslaught of stockers and mobs of fisherman is beyond me. I've always wondered how much movement of trout to the tribs there is during the summer. Most of the tribe are a trickle in the heat of summer. I've definitely seen fewer fish in Walnut than I remember from my youth. I did see a pod of nice rookies in a pool a few years ago. About 5-6 falls ago, I saw a ton of tiny rookies on the trib on the conservancy property and on the game lands.
 
Movement back into walnut would be difficult due to the dam and culvert. It is more likely they migrate upstream.
Walnuts habitat was ravaged years ago. It could benefit from habitat help. It's fish population certainly plummeted.
Kettle I cannot speak for as it's been a long time since I was on it.
 
PM sent Jeff
 
The_Sasquatch wrote:
Some of you guys may be interested in this group Sal is initiating (for real, by the way...)

https://www.facebook.com/TUHCWA/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf
Click to expand...

i just followed them on FB.


if you need a pair or hands in the fall, winter or spring, let me know.

if this weather ever cools off I'll come up and fish for those bass and the lake ones too.

i have an aerated bait bucket, is it against the law to catch them in Hammer and release them in the lake ?

thats where they've come from right ?
 
We are very certain that is where they came from. I'm not sure on the laws of catching and releasing them back in Speedwell Forge.

I saw you follow it and appreciate your offer of hands and will certainly keep you posted on the goings on.
I appreciate it!
 
From seeing the early posts on this thread I took a trip out to the lake last week.
I could see why fish would try to leave the pea soup of that water for the clean fresh water in a running stream.
Does that water look better earlier in the season?
Also, although I do not carry a thermometer, that water was much cooler than the lakes I normally fish.....so the algae bloom in there really seemed weird to me.
Anyway, I did manage to catch one nice bass on top where a tree was down in the water, but hardly any other hits in 3 hours both on top and sub surface.
I guess I will have to check out that creek sometime.
 
The water was clear in late June, but with all of the rain that has occurred, plenty of nutrients along with those from decomposing terrestrial vegetation have entered the lake and water column. Thus, a phytoplankton bloom has occurred. Under those conditions don't fish deeper than about 10-12 ft except when a large storm or two replaces most of the water in the lake.
 
On the issue of Hammer Creek and sals watershed club.

sal- and anyone REALLY interested in this watershed-----Imagine a stream lthat is maybe the size of Cross Fork Creek but much shorter and with a lot of posted sections. This stream is located in a very populated part of the state. It has some wild Brook trout and Brown trout but not a huge amount. It is fairly overgrown and much of it is difficult to fish. Now picture doing a bunch of so called "stream improvement" work on this creek. Realistically can you imagine all the attention you will bring?....Imagine all that "love". Maybe you will groom the paths and make it more "user friendly" while you are doing your so called improvements. Bring more people and turn it into YOUR contrived vision of what a trout stream should look like

Will the increased traffic from all the fishermen you attract be offset by these stream improvements you propose? I highly doubt it. Which is why I oppose your club.

Tired of all these so called conservation groups and do gooders ramming their vision of nature and how it should look and be utilized down the rest of our collective throats.
 
I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

I haven't proposed any stream improvement projects, that's another group.

Iam in the process of getting it reclassified to EV, I'm also in contact with three of the Lebanon farms interested in installing Stream bank fencing now, this will help with the sediment load that is filling in the creek.

We have removed 76 tires, 300lbs of shingles, the front end of a truck, 2 recliners, a coutch, 2 chairs and about 15 garbage bags of general trash.

Since we aren't doing anything that you just ranted about, you should come join instead of golfing.

We have been accomplishing some very good things. Your worries are academic at best and your description of the Creek is lacking, especially if you think it's hard to fish. Again come out and learn a few things and meet some good people.
 
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