Some results coming from Susquehanna study

[franklin]

Penn Live report.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2015/12/parasites_and_chemicals_causes.html#incart_2box_politics



Actual report.

http://files.dep.state.pa.us/Water/Drinking%20Water%20and%20Facility%20Regulation/WaterQualityPortalFiles/SusquehannaRiverStudyUpdates/SMB_CADDIS_Report.pdf

 

[Fishidiot]

"Chemicals, pathogens, and parasites..."

Interesting and important report from DEP. I'm looking forward to reading through it - thanks for posting this.

(Will probably move this thread to the WW forum soon)

 

[McSneek]

In other news...water is wet.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

15 years ago anyone with any experience on that river was saying pretty much the same things as this report. Wow! Are these science guys slow to respond or what!

 

[Fishidiot]

The short version of this study:
DEP conducted a study in 2014 that identified probable causes of the bass crash and sorted them as "likely, "unlikely," or "uncertain." Of the 14 potential causes studied, "likely" candidates included endocrine disruptors and herbicides. Interestingly, among the causes ruled out as "unlikely" or "uncertain" included warm water and dissolved oxygen, which had been at the forefront of PFBC suggested causes during past studies.

It is also important to note that DEP makes clear early in the study that the results found do not support a declaration of impairment (p6).

If I read the study correctly, it also does not include the recent 2015 SMB population data (see Fig 4 and 5). This is important because these studies suggest stable or modest improvements in YOY and CPU for adult SMB population structure. This info (and every annual one that follows) needs to be included. The study did make careful comparison of SMB in the lower Susky and lower Juniata and compared these impacted populations with control populations in unimpacted rivers.

Of side interest: SMB diet in the Susky is about 56% crayfish, 28% fishes, and 37% other macros (p 29).

The study does identify prevalent herbicides and pathogens but indicates that more research is needed to get a better idea of which ones are most significant in impacting bass. With respect to endocrine disruptors, this too needs more study.

Overall, I'm pleased to see this study but its conclusions are certainly far from conclusive and it makes clear that much more research is needed. Hopefully, this study will continue. Broadly speaking, the cause of the bass crash remains unknown but the current evidence provides a bit more confidence that herbicides and endocrine problems are more likely a cause and warm water and dissolved oxygen are now regarded as a less likely reason for the bass crash.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

I'll make a wild guess... Wastewater treatment plants that aren't doing what they should and farm run off. Should be another 10 years and we will know conclusively. And we already knew about the crayfish part.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

What about crayfish??? For that matter, what's cobble?

 

[franklin]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:
I'll make a wild guess... Wastewater treatment plants that aren't doing what they should and farm run off. Should be another 10 years and we will know conclusively. And we already knew about the crayfish part.

Fox, a lot of water treatment plants came on line in central Pa in the last ten years. So in theory the water entering the streams should be cleaner (at least per that source). Certain types of farm runoff have increased while others have decreased. Then we have a lot of changes in herbicides and insecticides over a similar period. And an increase in housing which leads to increased landscaping contributors.

There really has to be an objective approach to understanding the problem as shotgun approaches won't hold up legally if trying to use existing laws and won't gain public support if trying to add new laws/regulations.

 

[Maurice]

franklin wrote:

foxtrapper1972 wrote:
I'll make a wild guess... Wastewater treatment plants that aren't doing what they should and farm run off. Should be another 10 years and we will know conclusively. And we already knew about the crayfish part.

Fox, a lot of water treatment plants came on line in central Pa in the last ten years. So in theory the water entering the streams should be cleaner (at least per that source). Certain types of farm runoff have increased while others have decreased. Then we have a lot of changes in herbicides and insecticides over a similar period. And an increase in housing which leads to increased landscaping contributors.

There really has to be an objective approach to understanding the problem as shotgun approaches won't hold up legally if trying to use existing laws and won't gain public support if trying to add new laws/regulations.

The increase in new WWTPs explains the increase in endocrine disruptors and other harm euticls geting into the river. They used to go into septic tanks.

The collapse also coinsides with the time period when CAFOs were being pushed into every podunk township in pennsyltucky.

All the while we were screaming fromthe rooftops and were being ignored. Its 12 years later the new ED is pushing for impairment while the biologists Are saying the year classes are improving.

In PA Ag is King, especially pennsyltucky. They wont i it onthe CAFOs cuz the buy the legislature.

It is what is And it aint no more.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

1970s- Everyone is converting from septic tanks to new system. No till farming is becoming popular. Wetlands channelized. Muskrats and frogs and turtles start disappearing by early 1980s. Wild pheasants disappear completely. Development of houses, shopping centers, industrial parks and golf courses goes crazy. Fishermen start noticing decline in ALL fish in lower Susquehanna. Notable guys like Bob Clouser attend meetings of PAFBC to make this observation known. PAFBC says nothing is wrong. This goes on for years as we are told "more study is needed". Eventually PAFBC says there is a problem with Smallmouth Bass (but not other species?)....But "more study is needed".