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moon1284
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Yes I hate white perch!
Yes I hate white perch!
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moon1284
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There is a difference between invasive and non-native. I mostly partied in college but I was a biology major on the side.
https://www.islandconservation.org/nonnative-vs-invasive-species/
Can someone give me an example of a watershed where a fishery was decimated because of snakehead?
While we are at it how about one that was decimated due to zebra mussels, or round gobies, or spiny water Fleas, or didymo, or new Zealand mud snails, or Eurasian millfoil. Have Asian carp decimated the great lakes yet?
How come its super sweet to catch and release carp (which in my opinion cause more damage to a watershed than anything) but not snakehead.
https://www.islandconservation.org/nonnative-vs-invasive-species/
Can someone give me an example of a watershed where a fishery was decimated because of snakehead?
While we are at it how about one that was decimated due to zebra mussels, or round gobies, or spiny water Fleas, or didymo, or new Zealand mud snails, or Eurasian millfoil. Have Asian carp decimated the great lakes yet?
How come its super sweet to catch and release carp (which in my opinion cause more damage to a watershed than anything) but not snakehead.
afishinado
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Staff member
For the life of me, I just don't understand why some folks see something done that is illegal and just plain wrong and just shrug their shoulders and believe it's no big deal.
Just because mistakes and stupid things were done in the past doesn't mean it should be continued.
We all should be against playing Russian roulette with our streams, rivers and lakes.
It's just plain wrong, and if there are no or only minor consequences....that doesn't make it okay.
Anglers are making a mess of the rivers and streams all over this country by spreading fish that have no business being there.
Mike just listed a few in eastern PA that are recent examples.
And some of the blame for stocking fish that don't belong can be attributed to sportsman clubs as well as some of the state Fish and Game departments.
Protecting nature and keeping ecosystems in balance should be Job1, with fishing and other outdoor sports being a secondary consideration.
Just because mistakes and stupid things were done in the past doesn't mean it should be continued.
We all should be against playing Russian roulette with our streams, rivers and lakes.
It's just plain wrong, and if there are no or only minor consequences....that doesn't make it okay.
Anglers are making a mess of the rivers and streams all over this country by spreading fish that have no business being there.
Mike just listed a few in eastern PA that are recent examples.
And some of the blame for stocking fish that don't belong can be attributed to sportsman clubs as well as some of the state Fish and Game departments.
Protecting nature and keeping ecosystems in balance should be Job1, with fishing and other outdoor sports being a secondary consideration.
GeneBeam
Active member
I could not have said it better thank you.
Baron
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Oh Man, its frustrating and divisive to even approach this subject. There will be Jerks and evil-doers. Like most of you I find it appaling.
The Idea that we can fix it is terribly mis-leading but historically, on a wide scale, it hasn't happened. We can learn to live with it.
I've said it before that I wish I had all the pesticide back that I sprayed during numerous, regional insect infestations such as Gypsy Moth. I fear that the same thing is happening now over the Spotted Lantern Fly. My neighbors walk around their yards at night with a stick killing the SLF and they brag socially about their murderous but worthless forays. If we were accountants or statistics experts we would very very quickly come to the correct realization that, in the big scheme of things, we can't even slow down the spread of these calamities once they're out of the bag.
My Dad's generation did mortal battle with Chestnut disease, Dutch Elm Disease and Japanese Beetles. In each case we were "all gonna die" if we didn't fight these plaguing problems with everything we could throw at them. My generation took over from there with Gypsy Moth, Dogwood decline, Pine Beetle and more. In each case all efforts were totally ineffective. I do realize that in a controlled environment, such as Parks, arboretums, nurseries and hatcheries, it is possible to have almost total control. These areas are also repositories for DNA of original species....agood thing. All the bad things pass in time or nature adjusts and the new nature will continue on from there.
Don't forget that the only bankroll we would have to work on this would come from taxes and fees. How many other calamities get their bankrolls from those same sources. Since it will never work in the first place why would we drain the state to again fail at blocking or eradicating yet another pest.
A better way to handle this is to study the outcomes in other areas that suffered and see if things have stabilized. Perhaps we could develop strategies to remediate or create conditions favorable to the native species.
Remember that virtually all of our current animal species are invasive species arriving since the last Ice Age only a mere 10,000 years ago.
Kisses and Hugs.......talk fishing.
The Idea that we can fix it is terribly mis-leading but historically, on a wide scale, it hasn't happened. We can learn to live with it.
I've said it before that I wish I had all the pesticide back that I sprayed during numerous, regional insect infestations such as Gypsy Moth. I fear that the same thing is happening now over the Spotted Lantern Fly. My neighbors walk around their yards at night with a stick killing the SLF and they brag socially about their murderous but worthless forays. If we were accountants or statistics experts we would very very quickly come to the correct realization that, in the big scheme of things, we can't even slow down the spread of these calamities once they're out of the bag.
My Dad's generation did mortal battle with Chestnut disease, Dutch Elm Disease and Japanese Beetles. In each case we were "all gonna die" if we didn't fight these plaguing problems with everything we could throw at them. My generation took over from there with Gypsy Moth, Dogwood decline, Pine Beetle and more. In each case all efforts were totally ineffective. I do realize that in a controlled environment, such as Parks, arboretums, nurseries and hatcheries, it is possible to have almost total control. These areas are also repositories for DNA of original species....agood thing. All the bad things pass in time or nature adjusts and the new nature will continue on from there.
Don't forget that the only bankroll we would have to work on this would come from taxes and fees. How many other calamities get their bankrolls from those same sources. Since it will never work in the first place why would we drain the state to again fail at blocking or eradicating yet another pest.
A better way to handle this is to study the outcomes in other areas that suffered and see if things have stabilized. Perhaps we could develop strategies to remediate or create conditions favorable to the native species.
Remember that virtually all of our current animal species are invasive species arriving since the last Ice Age only a mere 10,000 years ago.
Kisses and Hugs.......talk fishing.
sarce
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I've said before on this site that in the Chesapeake Bay tribs, the snakeheads seem to fill a niche in poor water quality/low oxygen shallow weedy areas where not much else can survive, and I think that's why they haven't caused too much disruption. In a lake that's already a good fishery, it's not something I enjoy hearing about. I don't agree with intentionally spreading new species around, in any scenario.
But as for how to react to the news? It's hard for me to find any outrage or panic. The lake itself is man made. The big fisheries are largemouth bass and muskies, both non native. A few tributaries have trout - but only brown trout, no native brook trout.
Now, they could get into the Brandywine as another poster mentioned. I promise you they will not take over the DHALO. It's not slow and weedy enough. There will be a few that roam around in there and eat a few stocked trout. Probably less impact than whenever the muskies get loose in there. From the east Brandywine they can spread downstream to...the lower Brandywine, which already has them in DE.
With all of this said ..we really don't need to keep intentionally spreading them. While they are still limited to X number of waterways, it's easy enough to bring a ton of angling pressure to keep them in check or even cause populations to slowly decline, as has occurred in some VA waters. But at a certain point, in theory, they could get too widespread to control.
But as for how to react to the news? It's hard for me to find any outrage or panic. The lake itself is man made. The big fisheries are largemouth bass and muskies, both non native. A few tributaries have trout - but only brown trout, no native brook trout.
Now, they could get into the Brandywine as another poster mentioned. I promise you they will not take over the DHALO. It's not slow and weedy enough. There will be a few that roam around in there and eat a few stocked trout. Probably less impact than whenever the muskies get loose in there. From the east Brandywine they can spread downstream to...the lower Brandywine, which already has them in DE.
With all of this said ..we really don't need to keep intentionally spreading them. While they are still limited to X number of waterways, it's easy enough to bring a ton of angling pressure to keep them in check or even cause populations to slowly decline, as has occurred in some VA waters. But at a certain point, in theory, they could get too widespread to control.
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moon1284
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I agree it is wrong to illegaly plant snakehead (or any other fish for that matter). I just think the fear of snakehead is way overblown.
Personally I don't warmwater fish for anything and if I incidentally catch a smallmouth bass I get kind of irritated. I would never in a million years fish for snakehead. I live within minutes of arguably the brsst smallmouth fishery in the World, and when I used to fish for them there was always an invasive species that was going to wipe them out - it never happened and the fishery remains world class.
My brother recently got a small center console boat I'm contemplating taking it muskie fishing though...
Personally I don't warmwater fish for anything and if I incidentally catch a smallmouth bass I get kind of irritated. I would never in a million years fish for snakehead. I live within minutes of arguably the brsst smallmouth fishery in the World, and when I used to fish for them there was always an invasive species that was going to wipe them out - it never happened and the fishery remains world class.
My brother recently got a small center console boat I'm contemplating taking it muskie fishing though...
afishinado
Moderator
Staff member
I get it, you're a trout angler through and through.
How would you feel if some lunkhead got the brilliant idea that the upper west branch of the Delaware was a perfect place to stock northern pike fingerlings since the water stays cold enough all year round for them to thrive. :-o
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Mike
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Revision again to my previous post....A snakehead was confirmed via angler capture in the Lancaster Co “pond,” actually a quarry. Fortunately there is no possibility of surface escapement. Improbable, but not impossible, would be underground escapement in a limestone area.
I know of a situation in Ky where a former colleague has a farm and the reverse thing happens nearly each year. Carp from the local, somewhat distant stream end up in his pond, which is apparently a sink hole, and which dries up each summer. The carp kills produce quite a nasty smell.
I know of a situation in Ky where a former colleague has a farm and the reverse thing happens nearly each year. Carp from the local, somewhat distant stream end up in his pond, which is apparently a sink hole, and which dries up each summer. The carp kills produce quite a nasty smell.
wgmiller
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With respect to snakeheads in PA and "catch and release", I know the PFBC encourages all anglers to properly dispose of them, if caught. That being said, is catching, then releasing a snakehead technically "possessing" one? I entered into a debate with someone on a FB forum who said their friend was cited by the PFBC for releasing a caught snakehead caught via angling. I was under the impression proper disposal is "encouraged", but it's not unlawful to practice C & R...
"PA REGULATIONS
It is unlawful for a person to sell, purchase, offer for sale or barter live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to possess live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to introduce or import live Snakehead species into Pennsylvania waters.
Transportation of live Snakehead species in or through Pennsylvania is prohibited.
IF YOU CATCH ONE
Anglers catching Snakeheads should dispose of them properly. Anglers suspecting they have caught a Snakehead are encouraged to NOT release it, and report it to the Commission at 610-847-2442 or via email."
SOURCE:
PFBC snakehead page
"PA REGULATIONS
It is unlawful for a person to sell, purchase, offer for sale or barter live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to possess live Snakehead species in Pennsylvania.
It is unlawful to introduce or import live Snakehead species into Pennsylvania waters.
Transportation of live Snakehead species in or through Pennsylvania is prohibited.
IF YOU CATCH ONE
Anglers catching Snakeheads should dispose of them properly. Anglers suspecting they have caught a Snakehead are encouraged to NOT release it, and report it to the Commission at 610-847-2442 or via email."
SOURCE:
PFBC snakehead page
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Mike
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The C&R with respect to snakeheads: the R part is supposed to be immediate based on when such guidance was originally set up for Meadow Lake (FDR Park) in Philly. Don’t know if anything has changed since then.
As for the Lancaster Co quarry, an angler has now caught two adults with fry. He captured the adults from the nest(s).
As for the Lancaster Co quarry, an angler has now caught two adults with fry. He captured the adults from the nest(s).
Fredrick
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Mike
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I don’t speak for them, but I would certainly hope not. The study supports once again my contention that in the vast majority of cases once the cat is out of the bag with an invasive, it’s out! At that point you’re working on reducing or minimizing impacts, not on elimination. Doing any of that is often not cheap and uses $ that could have been better spent elsewhere on desirable species’ habitat enhancements. On rare occasions you might be able to control the impacts (some insects) or prevent their spread ( fish...if you can keep anglers from transporting them across drainage basins, find an environmental weakness that can be exploited as a control, or successfully establish barriers...good luck with that!)
Dave_W
Moderator
Staff member
This is unfortunate news (SH in March Creek Res.)
Mike,
With the continued surveys of MCR for muskies, might it be possible to glean some data on SH from springtime trap nets or night electrofishing in the next few years?
Since I believe this is the first case of SH in a large lake or reservoir in PA, it might form the basis for a study of SH impact(?) So many of the SH cases involve rivers which are a different environment to study.
If a formal survey isn't practicable... it will still be interesting to see what unfolds with angler accounts. MCR is fished hard by bass and muskie guys and they're bound to start reeling in SH. Maybe an angler survey?
Mike,
With the continued surveys of MCR for muskies, might it be possible to glean some data on SH from springtime trap nets or night electrofishing in the next few years?
Since I believe this is the first case of SH in a large lake or reservoir in PA, it might form the basis for a study of SH impact(?) So many of the SH cases involve rivers which are a different environment to study.
If a formal survey isn't practicable... it will still be interesting to see what unfolds with angler accounts. MCR is fished hard by bass and muskie guys and they're bound to start reeling in SH. Maybe an angler survey?
