Smallmouth population declines quickly explained: Schuylkill R, Lwr Delaware R

[afishinado]

Here is a fairly recent article with data on catching larger SMB in the lower Susky.

Big Bass

I agree with DW, the vast majority of SMB anglers that fish the Susky prefer C&R fishing for them.

Why would the PFBC in light of the good fishing and the preferences of the majority of anglers change the regulations?

 

[FarmerDave]

Dave_W wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:
I can't tell you the last time I saw a bass on a stringer or in a cooler. A majority of anglers have been practicing C&R long before 2012.

No doubt that creeled bass have largely disappeared on our rivers. It used to be common to see folks at boat ramps with stringers of bass (and often a 30" muskie). I do recall a case maybe four years ago when I saw an old fella with a couple very large bass on a stringer on Conodoguinet. I was tempted to tell him how long it takes to grow fish of that size...but decided not to. It was legal and ethical for him to posses those bass, it just made me cringe.

I do still see river anglers with catfish on stringers, but very rarely bass.

For the record, those weren't my words, but I did agree with them.;-)

SMB suck as table-fare.

 

[FarmerDave]

Dave_W wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:
I can't tell you the last time I saw a bass on a stringer or in a cooler. A majority of anglers have been practicing C&R long before 2012.

No doubt that creeled bass have largely disappeared on our rivers. It used to be common to see folks at boat ramps with stringers of bass (and often a 30" muskie). I do recall a case maybe four years ago when I saw an old fella with a couple very large bass on a stringer on Conodoguinet. I was tempted to tell him how long it takes to grow fish of that size...but decided not to. It was legal and ethical for him to posses those bass, it just made me cringe.

I do still see river anglers with catfish on stringers, but very rarely bass.

Do the Amish not fish there?

I was in the Pymatuning State Park office, 10 or so years ago (Ohio side). I noticed a musky mount hanging on the wall. There is no way that it was legal length, so I commented on it. Ranger said they found it laying in the woods. Besides it being sub-legal, musky weren't even in season when they found it. The ranger blamed it on the Amish.;-)

Channel catfish are pretty good eating IMO, but I can't remember ever trying flathead. My brother used to travel south to fish for them and would always invite me. My response always was ... "Why?" I can catch catfish here."

Years ago I stocked channel catfish in my ponds. I fried one up one day, and wife said she didn't like it.

Fortunately she likes crappie and perch. She also likes bluegill, but doesn't know it. ;-)

 

[jifigz]

FarmerDave wrote:

For the record, those weren't my words, but I did agree with them.;-)

SMB suck as table-fare.

I don't harvest many fish of any variety but how can you say smallies suck as table fare if you like crappies and bluegills? Smallmouths are just as good eating as those fish and offer a bigger fillet.

 

[FarmerDave]

jifigz wrote:

FarmerDave wrote:

For the record, those weren't my words, but I did agree with them.;-)

SMB suck as table-fare.

I don't harvest many fish of any variety but how can you say smallies suck as table fare if you like crappies and bluegills? Smallmouths are just as good eating as those fish and offer a bigger fillet.

I disagree.

It could be true for small ones, but I don't catch small ones. ;-)

Seriously, only tried it once, and didn't like it. That was about 30 years ago, and it was out of lake erie.

I have had largemouth recently (from my own pond) and it was OK, but nowhere near as good as perch (from my own pond).

 

[bigjohn58]

poopdeck wrote:
I don't see C&R regs doing much of anything. Since most anglers practice C&R by choice, having a written regulation is not really doing anything more. Sure there are those who keep fish but I believe their numbers are decreasing to the point where they will have essentially no effect on the data curve.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a bass on a stringer or in a cooler. A majority of anglers have been practicing C&R long before 2012.

Come up the West Branch Susquehanna and see how the smallie fishing is and you'll see how much of a difference catch and release regs make! I'm always amazed at the number of smallies being kept here on the West Branch. Its why I feel the West Branch peaked up towards Lock Haven in the Late 90s and early 2000s. People didn't know it was holding fish so very few were fishing. Once word got out that the AMD wasn't effecting it as much and fish populations were back then the numbers quickly dropped off. I don't even bother fishing for smallies here in the Williamsport area (its musky water). I'll take the 45 minute drive down to the main branch to do my smallie fishing!

 

[jifigz]

poopdeck wrote:
I don't see C&R regs doing much of anything. Since most anglers practice C&R by choice, having a written regulation is not really doing anything more. Sure there are those who keep fish but I believe their numbers are decreasing to the point where they will have essentially no effect on the data curve.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a bass on a stringer or in a cooler. A majority of anglers have been practicing C&R long before 2012.

I totally agree with you. I don't honestly want to see enforced C&R regs on most places, if at all. Most all of the more "serious fishermen" practice C&R voluntarily. I used to be a huge C&R advocate but my tune is changing. I have not kept a fish yet this year and often don't keep any fish, however, I also don't want to be looked down upon with disdain if I do keep a fish or two. After all, I enjoy eating fish and should I take a bass out of my local waterways or eat fish from the ocean with most all commercial fisheries all ready seriously overfished? I think that it is almost more ethical to occasionally harvest our own fish from our own backyards. Sure, we can't go down and catch and keep fish constantly, but a meal here or there for most anglers isn't going to make much of a difference. It is for reasons like this I wish I had my own pond and could harvest fish as I saw fit to manage that pond without the glaring scrutiny and criticism of the rest of the angling community.

 

[Dave_W]

bigjohn58 wrote:

Come up the West Branch Susquehanna and see how the smallie fishing is and you'll see how much of a difference catch and release regs make! I'm always amazed at the number of smallies being kept here on the West Branch. Its why I feel the West Branch peaked up towards Lock Haven in the Late 90s and early 2000s. People didn't know it was holding fish so very few were fishing. Once word got out that the AMD wasn't effecting it as much and fish populations were back then the numbers quickly dropped off. I don't even bother fishing for smallies here in the Williamsport area (its musky water). I'll take the 45 minute drive down to the main branch to do my smallie fishing!

This is interesting. I'm surprised you're seeing so much harvest on the West Branch. I would not have guessed this.

 

[jifigz]

I can't believe that either. I very rarely see anyone harvesting bass out of the Juniata. A few years ago however I was on the Lewistown Country Club golfing in a memorial type fundraiser tournament and I saw a guy walk up from a well known hole with a "flow-troll" bait bucket and 5 bass better than 15" all on a stringer. The largest was probably pushing 20". I remember watching in disbelief.

That said the guy who got me into fishing as a kid used to harvest a bunch of fish. He was my cousin's husband, now deceased, and was certainly a hick. I remember seeing him bring home walleye, bass, and catfish on several occasions.

 

[poopdeck]

My dad kept every fish he ever caught. He didn't target one species and he would frequently have a mixed stringer. Later in life he stopped this practice but would still bring home a walleye, perch and crappie from time to time.

I also enjoy walleye, perch and crappie. I generally catch and release walleye because they take so long to get to reproduction age but I will eat one every now and then. Nothing better then perch and crappie through the ice though and I will keep a bucket full if I catch them. I also love the slot fish size stripers (22 to 26") and will keep them when I'm allowed. Funny thing is when the slot fish is in in the early season I seem to catch them above 26. Later in the season when the slot fish size is dropped and legal size becomes 28" I seem to catch them up to 27.5". It seems they picked the slot timing perfectly for protection of the fish.

 

[bigjohn58]

Dave_W wrote:

bigjohn58 wrote:

Come up the West Branch Susquehanna and see how the smallie fishing is and you'll see how much of a difference catch and release regs make! I'm always amazed at the number of smallies being kept here on the West Branch. Its why I feel the West Branch peaked up towards Lock Haven in the Late 90s and early 2000s. People didn't know it was holding fish so very few were fishing. Once word got out that the AMD wasn't effecting it as much and fish populations were back then the numbers quickly dropped off. I don't even bother fishing for smallies here in the Williamsport area (its musky water). I'll take the 45 minute drive down to the main branch to do my smallie fishing!

This is interesting. I'm surprised you're seeing so much harvest on the West Branch. I would not have guessed this.

We have a few well known fishermen in the area on the West Branch that keep and kill EVERYTHING they catch. All they do is basically live on the river. If you ever wanted to see what the effects of eating fish from the river have on people they would be the one's to study. If you are checking how they effect brain cells though you'd probably have to find someone else since they were already lacking them to begin with. We also get lots of Amish floating the river in kayaks and canoes. It really seems like maybe 1 out of 3 weekend angler around here tends to keep fish as well. I truly do not believe the PFBC realized how many people in the central/north central PA area keep and kill fish. Its a traditional thing that just can't be shaken it seems.

 

[FarmerDave]

Bigjohn, years ago I used to see a lot of that on the Allegheny and other large rivers on NWPA. Then in the Spring they would empty their freezers out again and start all over.

Gotta get their money's worth. :roll:

It's probably still going on, but I would speculate not as much. But I admit I haven't fished the larger rivers in a long time.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I'll agree with BigJohn that Amish can regulary be seen floating the river and I have observed them with stringer fulls of fish. I disagree that the River around Williamsport fishes poorly however. Over the course of a season I am satisfied with what trips I can get on the river. A bad day is usually balanced out by a great day another time.

 

[melvinp]

Wouldn't weather be the biggest factor on fish populations,Up here in the north(Wyoming county) the river has been like a yoyo from no water to flood stage in the same week over the past several years.

 

[Mike]

Apparently effect of the SMB harvest on the West Branch Susquehanna is being overblown. This July's West Branch electrofishing data do not indicate the least bit of a harvest problem, as SMB 12 inches and longer as well as those 15 inches and longer were above average in abundance and the highest numbers recorded across all sampling years from 1990 to 2018. Perhaps the bass are better educated now than in the past.

 

[bigjohn58]

Mike wrote:
Apparently effect of the SMB harvest on the West Branch Susquehanna is being overblown. This July's West Branch electrofishing data do not indicate the least bit of a harvest problem, as SMB 12 inches and longer as well as those 15 inches and longer were above average in abundance and the highest numbers recorded across all sampling years from 1990 to 2018. Perhaps the bass are better educated now than in the past.

I think it depends on where you are doing these studies at on the West Branch. I'm not saying its a bad fishery at all...just saying I think it could be a lot better then it is. I just witness a lot being taken from the waters on my fishing trips on the West Branch. A lot more harvest their fish then I ever realized.

 

[bigjohn58]

Mike wrote:
Apparently effect of the SMB harvest on the West Branch Susquehanna is being overblown. This July's West Branch electrofishing data do not indicate the least bit of a harvest problem, as SMB 12 inches and longer as well as those 15 inches and longer were above average in abundance and the highest numbers recorded across all sampling years from 1990 to 2018. Perhaps the bass are better educated now than in the past.

Also if there have been so many studies can you please explain to me what has happened to the rockbass? The rockbass used to be the most common caught fish in the West Branch. They are now almost nonexistent. I know most people do not care about rockbass but as kids they kept us entertained. They were in such large numbers and to have a them just disappear to me is very concerning. I have yet to ever hear an explanation from the PFBC or anyone else that makes sense to me about the rockbass.

 

[jifigz]

Rock bass numbers seem to be down across the entire Susquehanna watershed. I still catch a lot here on the Juniata but nothing like I did years ago. Have you noticed a spike in redbreast populations in the West Branch? I certainly have noticed an increase in their numbers as rock bass have dwindled.

 

[bigjohn58]

jifigz wrote:
Rock bass numbers seem to be down across the entire Susquehanna watershed. I still catch a lot here on the Juniata but nothing like I did years ago. Have you noticed a spike in redbreast populations in the West Branch? I certainly have noticed an increase in their numbers as rock bass have dwindled.

I'm seeing a lot of the green sunfish on the West Branch. They are kind of annoying because they will just nibble at what you are throwing or bump it. They have a big mouth too but just never seem to get the hook! We never had them years ago.