Small stream trout rod recommendations

[bdhoover77]

My primary trout rod is a nymphing 10’ 3wt nymphing rod. But I have been thinking about getting another shorter lightweight rod to cast traditional weight forward fly lines, primarily for small stream fishing, casting dry flies, and even fishing for panfish.

Should I look at an 8’6” 4wt or should I go even lighter?

 

[wildtrout2]

I fish nothing but small wild freestone streams, so I've chosen a 7' 3wt St. Croix Imperial for the job. It's perfect for what I need. It's one of my most prized possessions.

 

[rrt]

I have an old 6'6" Orvis Rky. Mtn. rod that I like on small brooks and runs. I think the next line I get for it will be a 3-wt,, just to see how it works.

For slightly larger small streams, I have used a 7" 5-wt Rky. Mtn for years. I recently splurged on a Weiler rod of the same specs and have used it a couple of times. It casts like the old Orvis, and I plan to fish it a lot this spring and summer -- if the weather finally cooperates.

 

[pcray1231]

The length is pretty straighforward. As long as you can get away with but not longer. 6 ft is short and 8 ft is long in small wild freestone streams. 7 footer is kind of the basic.

As for weight. Well, I'm an oddball here. My most common setup is a 4/5 wt rod and I throw a 7 wt line on it. In medium size streams with the same rod I back off to 5 wt line, but it's the 7 wt line for the tighter surroundings. I like having a rod with some backbone as you often have to throw TIGHT casts in brush, and there's a lot of roll casts and circle rolls, and the fish just aren't sticklers for delicate presentations, they're sticklers for not seeing YOU first. Distance in tight places is the name of the game. The overlining, I highly recommend if your casts are going to be short. Often just a few feet of fly line off the tip.

If a rod is rated as a 4 wt, that means the manufacturer thinks it loads correctly with 30 ft of 4 wt line off the tip. That means: 5-10 ft of 4 wt line is UNDERLOADING it. 5-10 ft of 7 weight line is NOT overloading it. Take your expected casting distance into account!!!!

And don't go expensive on a brush rod. These are beaters. You're going to be crawling through rhodo tunnels, back casting against branches. You want the FF equivalent of an ugly stick.

 

[Bamboozle]

My primary trout rod is a nymphing 10’ 3wt nymphing rod. But I have been thinking about getting another shorter lightweight rod to cast traditional weight forward fly lines, primarily for small stream fishing, casting dry flies, and even fishing for panfish.

Should I look at an 8’6” 4wt or should I go even lighter?

First off, small as in "small streams" is extremely subjective.

A narrow stream is "small," however if you don't have overhanging trees, rhododendron tunnels or streamside brush limiting your ability to wave around something between 7'6" and 8 foot long, you don't really need to go really short. Many people consider Slate Run a small stream, however I fish there with an 8'0" or 8'6" rod most of the time because the forest doesn't hem you in.

Another thing, small streams usually offer small pools broken up by frequent riffles. That means short drifts that are often spoiled by a current dragging on the belly of your fly line hanging off your tip top if you are fishing a short rod. In these situation you will really come to appreciate a longer rod with longer reach.

That being said, even though I fish rods as short as 5 feet and I fish 6'6" rods a lot on the overgrown places, I still always go with the longest rod I can get away with wherever I fish.

I'll give you a couple of recommendations:

First, do some reconnoitering at streams you want to fish to see how small they really are before deciding on a rod length.

Once you THINK you know the rod you want, try test casting it at the short distances you expect to cast. You may find out the rod doesn't load the way you like making a 20 foot cast. You can improve upon this situation by either fishing a heavier line than is written on the rod blank or choosing a softer action rod.

Fiberglass excels in these situations, especially if you decide to go with a shorter rod. Fishing a short leader also helps a lot because you want as much fly line out past the tip top when casting short. I use leaders around 5-6 feet long when fishing small streams.

Don't worry about what line weight your rod fishes best. First off, wind is usually never an issue when fishing most small streams because of the amount of vegetation around them. Second, you will be casting so short that you most likely will only be presenting a small portion of the line belly anyway.

Most of my small stream arsenal are 3 & 4wts, more because of the smaller reels I can use and have the rod/reel balance I like versus the belief I need something delicate and light.

Have fun!!

.

 

[greywolf]

My primary trout rod is a nymphing 10’ 3wt nymphing rod. But I have been thinking about getting another shorter lightweight rod to cast traditional weight forward fly lines, primarily for small stream fishing, casting dry flies, and even fishing for panfish.

Should I look at an 8’6” 4wt or should I go even lighter?

A 4 weight 8'6" rod will cover small streams and most larger streams that you find in Pa.

 

[pcray1231]

I would definitely NOT consider Slate to be a small stream. At least not the lower end. Yeah thats an 8-9 ft rod kind of stream. Which kind of proves Bamboozles point. When you say small waters, we all have a different mental picture of what you are talking about.

We probably agree more on what we'd use to fish a specific water, and less on how to classify the size of that water.

 

[bdhoover77]

At the risk of showing my ignorance, for those suggesting a 4wt rod, is there enough difference between the typical 9’ 5wt rod and an 8’6” 4wt to justify picking up the 4wt? Also, is the 4wt rod more versatile than a 7’6” 3wt rod for fishing with dry flies, dry droppers, and small streamers?

I understand that there is no one-size-fits-all rod, and each type of rod has its purpose and advantages/disadvantages. I also realize that I need to cast a few rods before making a decision. What I’m trying to figure out is which lightweight rod “checks more boxes” than another? Most of my FF to this point is in Maryland streams. The streams I typically fish are not what I consider to be large streams (Gunpowder, Little Falls, and the tributaries).

Thank you for all the comments thus far!

 

[pcray1231]

Depending where you fish them, the main branches of those aren't real small or tight. Probably best is an 8 or 8.5 foot rod, IMO. Tribs or way upper ends cut a foot off that..

No there's not a huge difference between a 9 ft 5 wt and a 8.5 ft 4 wt, especially if you are overlining it! Maybe get a 7-7.5 footer, cover both ends of the spectrum and choose. The 8 foot somethings I refer to as tweener rods, not a huge advantage over either end of the spectrum.

Not sure I ever saw the advantage of light soft rods for this kind of fishing, but a lot of people do it so maybe I'm a weirdo. I get it on larger, often pressured streams, fishing midges and tricos and the like and needing delicate accuracy and perfect drifts on long fine leaders in flat water. But squeezing a size 12 humpy, maybe with a dropper, up under a branch 3 feet off the water, with no backcast and a 6 ft leader, kinda wanting a healthy "plop" when it hits, and not too worried about a wake on the fly in turbulent fast water? Give me backbone. Sure the fight feels better on a softer rod, but if I am chasing 6" brookies for the fight I need to re-examine a few things about my life, lol.

 

[JoeE]

I fish a 7’9” 4wt and a 6’3” 4wt most of the time and then I fish several niche rods any where from 6, 5’8” 5’5” , 5’ and 4’ 4” 4 and 5wt. In specific streams or sections of streams. Just because I like shorter rods Nothing wrong with longer rods. Joe. E

 

[JeffK]

This rod stuff is very personal. My take on it is I don't go shorter than 7' for general fishing. Short rods can cast great, but I can't control the line as well on the water or set the hook with a shorter rod. I do have a 5' Lil Streamer rod for tight spaces, but that is using streamers and strip striking so the length doesn't matter.

I also don't go under 4 wt and mostly 5 wt for punching short distances. IMHO, need a heavier line to load a rod with a short length out.

That said, I have 7' and 8' 6" rods I like for small streams. The issue for me is more undergrowth than size of stream. For open woods where the deer have munched everything I can use my 10' rod.

 

[kbobb]

At the risk of showing my ignorance, for those suggesting a 4wt rod, is there enough difference between the typical 9’ 5wt rod and an 8’6” 4wt to justify picking up the 4wt? Also, is the 4wt rod more versatile than a 7’6” 3wt rod for fishing with dry flies, dry droppers, and small streamers?

I have 9'5 wt and 8.5' 4 wt in the same rod line from the same rod company - 2 pc north fork blanks built with essentially identical components. yes to me there is a difference in that the 5 is more all purpose and feels"bigger" and less delicate. the 4 is more delicate, a softer rod that I like best for dry flies. The difference between the 7.5' 3 wt and 8.5' 4 is, to me, not as great as the difference between the 9' 5 and 8.5' 4. the 3 wt would be better on tighter streams but I probably fish the same kind of flies on both rods. For hopper dropper I would prefer the 5 if I could get away with the length, the 4 could do it depending on the size of your flies.

 

[JoeE]

Pcray1231, I agree with what you are saying concerning graphite rods on the line weights. I like short rods that can cast or roll cast the leader. On most graphite rods you have to go up a line weight or 2 for the performance you want out of the rod if you are casting line.

 

[NRD]

I've fished my favorite small stream with 8'6" 4 wt, 10'6" 3 wt, 7'0" 3 wt, and finally settled on a 7'9" 3wt with a 3 wt Rio Grand line. This line has a short heavy section at the front of the head, which I enjoy when only working with a little line out. If I'd started out with this line on the 7'0" 3 wt rod, I probably would have stuck with that. Many people spend too much energy worrying about rods and not enough choosing lines.

 

[kbobb]

Many people spend too much energy worrying about rods and not enough choosing lines.

Or leader construction.

 

[afishinado]

To find the best rod for the job involves more than lookin for an X length and Y weight rod. There are slow rods, fast rods, moderate action rods, heavy rods, light rods, glass rods, boo or carbon rods, etc. They all cast and fish differently.

Plus the line you choose can drastically change the characteristic of the rod.

Add to that the techniques you most often use to fish, along with you fly choices with respect to size and weight should be considered when choosing a rod. How bout the size of the fish? So there's a lot to consider.

Cast as many rods as you can. Another way to approach it is fish the rod you currently have and take note what characteristics you like and what characteristics hold you back. Length in heavy cover? Weight for casting the flies you most often fish? The size of the fish you catch? Loading for short casts? Roll casting? And on and on. Asking yourself these questions will help you hone in on what rod will best fit the fishing you plan to do with it.

 

[JeffK]

Line is pretty important too. The weight that is important is the weight you have outside the rod tip and are actually throwing Standards are for weight of last 30 ft of line. That is one reason to go heavier for short casts. That can be done by cutting off some of the front taper so the line in the air is heavier: need to look at taper though. In the extreme, the 5 ft Lil Streamer rod was designed to be fished with a level line. Hard to get these days, but level lines don't fish that bad. Some line manufacturers used to leave a little extra thin section at the end of the line for cutting back. There were a couple of characters in the Catskills that used to go around and cut peoples lines shorter when they saw the line wasn't casting well. Shocked a few people.

 

[Wild_Trouter]

I use a 6'6" Cortland CL 3wt w/Orvis Battenkill for the real tiny to smaller blue lines, and where I have a little more room to operate, I roll with a 7'6" Custom build ATM 4wt which also has a little more punch for small streamers, etc. One thing I'd add and I apologize if it's been said already, but don't worry so much about the reel. I have several Battenkills that I have been using years. If I had to buy a new fly reel for small mountain stream trouting, I really wouldn't spend too much. The reel is just a line holder. You don't need anything fancy or expensive when your primary target is <10". Just make sure it balances out with the rod you buy and you'll be fine.