Small Stream Scouting (Wild Trout/Natural Reproduction List)

[msteindl]

I was looking to do some small stream scouting over the next couple weeks. Mainly looking at some local streams on the Wild Trout/Natural Reproduction List (not the Class A list). I just wanted to see if anyone had any tips for scoping these places out (anything specific to look for?) With it being July and very hot is it even worth trying to fish or should I just walk the stream and plan a return?. If I do return what's the best setup to entice a wild brook or brown trout? Assuming they would be small fish as the creeks I'm looking at on the map are on the smaller side.

Side note, I checked out a small tributary the other day that looked promising. I saw some fish in the deep holes but I couldn't get up close enough to determine if they were trout or just creek chubs (any tips for properly identifying trout from a distance) I think if I got any closer I would have spooked them...

 

[Swattie87]

Don’t worry about identifying the fish species and potentially spooking them in the process. Just cast blind to any good looking spots and identify them after you catch them. If you catch a Chub, who cares, better than getting skunked.

This time of year, on small wild Trout streams, I just fish a big, bushy, high floating dry fly…Wulffs/Humpys/Stimulators/small Hoppers/etc. If you’re not getting any action on the dry and/or you think there’s Browns in there (Browns tend to hit dries less willingly than Brookies on small streams), tie a small (like size 16 or 18) nymph about a foot off the dry.

Take a thermometer with you and as long as the water temps are ok, have at it. Nothing beats boots in the water in terms of exploring new streams. If one turns out to be a dud, cut bait, and go try a different one.

 

[rrt]

Agree with Swattie87: take and use a water thermometer. If you catch trout in warm water (over 68 degrees) and release them, you are probably killing many of them anyhow.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Yea agreed brook trout start to get stressed at 64 degrees as evidenced by increased blood cortisol levels and that temp being the stimulus to seek colder water in petty, hansberger, and huntsmans 2012 srudy of migration on shavers fork. If its 64 and your invested in what happens post release to the brook trout go to an all brown trout stream.

Seldom known fact that alot of these brown trout streams get under 67 around 11p-12a so if ya wanted try night fishing the 11- daylight time alot is money right now.

 

[dryflyguy]

When looking at potential new blue lines on a map, I check for ponds or impoundments.
These tend to warm the water more so downstream, than if they weren't there

 

[Mike]

Yea agreed brook trout start to get stressed at 64 degrees as evidenced by increased blood cortisol levels and that temp being the stimulus to seek colder water in petty, hansberger, and huntsmans 2012 srudy of migration on shavers fork

Yes, I keep telling individuals here that ST are more temp sensitive than BT and RT not because of any similarities in the max temps that they can withstand, but because stress is initiated in ST at 64 deg while for BT and RT it’s at a temp of 68 deg. Frequent temperature excursions, measured as the number of 15 min periods per month above these temperature stress thresholds, are major factors in trout mortality. A stream or stream section doesn’t have to ever reach the max tolerable temp for nearly all or all trout in a population to succomb.

 

[Clams]

Mainly looking at some local streams on the Wild Trout/Natural Reproduction List (not the Class A list). I just wanted to see if anyone had any tips for scoping these places out (anything specific to look for?) With it being July and very hot is it even worth trying to fish or should I just walk the stream and plan a return?.

There are plenty of streams in the mountains where the water stays cold and the fish stay hungry through the summer. Use this map, do some research and then hit the water. This is the best way to learn and it'll be extremely satisfying when you put it all together and catch fish.

ArcGIS Web Application

pfbc.maps.arcgis.com

 

[silverfox]

I've run into enough situations where a stream is listed, and by fishing it you realize it's only a certain section of the stream that holds trout (or fishable numbers of trout).

I've been on streams in the valleys where trout are really only in an area where there's coldwater input or the habitat is only good in certain areas. Outside of those hot spots, there are few trout, and then around the good habitat/cold water sources, etc., sometimes they fish better than Class A's.

Two examples;
A) The entire stream is listed as natural reproduction from headwaters to mouth (~19 miles). The very upper end is in SGL and is predominantly brook trout for about a mile or two. Below that, for several miles, there are some places where the stream goes subterranean during droughts, and there's really no trout for most of the year. Then from the mouth upstream for a few miles, there are always wild browns. If you fished it in the middle section, you'd question why it's listed as a wild trout stream.

B) The entire stream is listed as natural reproduction from headwaters to mouth (~7 miles). About a mile up from the mouth is a limestone stream that was dammed up into a pond about 1 acre in size. The pond is shaded, and it's a pretty sizable spring that feeds it, so the outflow into the 7-mile stream is pretty significant. The owners stocked trout (browns) about 40 years ago (I don't think they do anymore), and some of the trout escaped into the 7-mile wild trout stream. There is a several hundred-yard stretch of the 7-mile-long stream that has a population of wild browns in it. If you fish above that cold water input, or far enough below, you won't find any trout. This whole system is isolated by a big impoundment (the mouth of the 7-mile stream). I fished it years ago up in the headwaters on private property (with permission) just to see if there were any brook trout up there, and there weren't. At least not that I could find with a rod/reel.

I think it's fun to figure these things out. Usually, there is little information to go by other than PFBC saying there's wild trout in the system somewhere. Going and exploring them is 90% of the fun (to me). Just be aware that unlike the Class A list, the wild trout listings are usually entire stream lengths, but that doesn't mean there are wild trout from the headwaters to mouth.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I've run into enough situations where a stream is listed, and by fishing it you realize it's only a certain section of the stream that holds trout (or fishable numbers of trout).

I've been on streams in the valleys where trout are really only in an area where there's coldwater input or the habitat is only good in certain areas. Outside of those hot spots, there are few trout, and then around the good habitat/cold water sources, etc., sometimes they fish better than Class A's.

Two examples;
A) The entire stream is listed as natural reproduction from headwaters to mouth (~19 miles). The very upper end is in SGL and is predominantly brook trout for about a mile or two. Below that, for several miles, there are some places where the stream goes subterranean during droughts, and there's really no trout for most of the year. Then from the mouth upstream for a few miles, there are always wild browns. If you fished it in the middle section, you'd question why it's listed as a wild trout stream.

B) The entire stream is listed as natural reproduction from headwaters to mouth (~7 miles). About a mile up from the mouth is a limestone stream that was dammed up into a pond about 1 acre in size. The pond is shaded, and it's a pretty sizable spring that feeds it, so the outflow into the 7-mile stream is pretty significant. The owners stocked trout (browns) about 40 years ago (I don't think they do anymore), and some of the trout escaped into the 7-mile wild trout stream. There is a several hundred-yard stretch of the 7-mile-long stream that has a population of wild browns in it. If you fish above that cold water input, or far enough below, you won't find any trout. This whole system is isolated by a big impoundment (the mouth of the 7-mile stream). I fished it years ago up in the headwaters on private property (with permission) just to see if there were any brook trout up there, and there weren't. At least not that I could find with a rod/reel.

I think it's fun to figure these things out. Usually, there is little information to go by other than PFBC saying there's wild trout in the system somewhere. Going and exploring them is 90% of the fun (to me). Just be aware that unlike the Class A list, the wild trout listings are usually entire stream lengths, but that doesn't mean there are wild trout from the headwaters to mouth.

I was looking to do some small stream scouting over the next couple weeks. Mainly looking at some local streams on the Wild Trout/Natural Reproduction List (not the Class A list). I just wanted to see if anyone had any tips for scoping these places out (anything specific to look for?) With it being July and very hot is it even worth trying to fish or should I just walk the stream and plan a return?. If I do return what's the best setup to entice a wild brook or brown trout? Assuming they would be small fish as the creeks I'm looking at on the map are on the smaller side.

Side note, I checked out a small tributary the other day that looked promising. I saw some fish in the deep holes but I couldn't get up close enough to determine if they were trout or just creek chubs (any tips for properly identifying trout from a distance) I think if I got any closer I would have spooked them...

a lot of times even if ya don’t find wild trout you may find a cornucopia of creek chubs which are excellent dry fly fish and can get to a size that makes it fun on 3 weigh glass.

 

[msteindl]

Thank you all for the guidance this was very helpful. One last question, I meant to ask on my prior post, if I planned on checking out a small tributary just off a main public access stream can I wade up the stream along the middle/watersides and not be considered trespassing? The one stream I'm looking at on the map branches off and it looks like there's a farm on one side and fields/woods on the other. If I enter the trib from the public access stream is this acceptable without gaining permission?

 

[jifigz]

Thank you all for the guidance this was very helpful. One last question, I meant to ask on my prior post, if I planned on checking out a small tributary just off a main public access stream can I wade up the stream along the middle/watersides and not be considered trespassing? The one stream I'm looking at on the map branches off and it looks like there's a farm on one side and fields/woods on the other. If I enter the trib from the public access stream is this acceptable without gaining permission?

Incorrect. You would 100% be trespassing. Even if it is a fairly large waterway it can still be private.

PA does not have a stream access right like Montana. Even a stream that is big like the Little J had a huge court case regarding whether it was big enough to be public.

However, everyone seems to think you can trespass through waterways....and I mean dang near everyone.....this can be a good thing if you decide to trespass anyways which is not something I am condoning.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

a lot of times even if ya don’t find wild trout you may find a cornucopia of creek chubs which are excellent dry fly fish and can get to a size that makes it fun on 3 weigh glass.

^This is actually what I'm looking for anyways. I'll take my "chub mines" over a large wild trout population ANY DAY. A proficient chubber that is skilled in the ways of Edo Style can take maybe 40 fish from a single hole! That's more than what most people catch in a day of wild trout fishing (excluding Frank Almighty).

@Fish Sticks, how have the trico hatches been treating you lately? You may also want to bump down to a 0wt, you'd be surprised how many of the smaller ones you're "bumping". If you really wanna be a SERIOUS chubber, you'll have to rectify this loss of fish, that is, if you really want to be a member of the Dauphin County Chubsman.

 

[jifigz]

I'll take my "chub mines" over a large wild trout population ANY DAY.

Well that's good. I guess you won't be adding to the crowding on Penns in the spring then. It's good to know that you aren't part of the problem there.

Thanks for chasing chubs instead!

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I guess you won't be adding to the crowding on Penns in the spring then.

My car can't make it to Penns unless I tow it. I really hate having to work for the fish there. I don't see what all the hype is about. Work a lot to catch a fish that just breaks you off? No thanks. The tug is the drug no matter the size I say!

 

[Fish Sticks]

Well that's good. I guess you won't be adding to the crowding on Penns in the spring then. It's good to know that you aren't part of the problem there.

Thanks for chasing chubs instead!

Penns so hot right now

 

[jifigz]

My car can't make it to Penns unless I tow it. I really hate having to work for the fish there. I don't see what all the hype is about. Work a lot to catch a fish that just breaks you off? No thanks. The tug is the drug no matter the size I say!

Work on your playing/landing skills or knot tying if that many fish are breaking you off.

I'm gonna guess you haven't fished it too much from your post.

 

[Fish Sticks]

^This is actually what I'm looking for anyways. I'll take my "chub mines" over a large wild trout population ANY DAY. A proficient chubber that is skilled in the ways of Edo Style can take maybe 40 fish from a single hole! That's more than what most people catch in a day of wild trout fishing (excluding Frank Almighty).

@Fish Sticks, how have the trico hatches been treating you lately? You may also want to bump down to a 0wt, you'd be surprised how many of the smaller ones you're "bumping". If you really wanna be a SERIOUS chubber, you'll have to rectify this loss of fish, that is, if you really want to be a member of the Dauphin County Chubsman.

I have seriously used a 4 weight 2 hander for chub spey though in one of our last Dauphin County League of Chubsmen public water events. Its hard to find a 30ft wide chub stream. I would recommend the original poster sling streamers all winter in prospective watersheds and try upstream of where you pick em up in jan feb march and april

 

[Fish Sticks]

Some watersheds you streamer fish in winter are duds but some you will puck up a lot of fish in smallmouth water then you can wander bqcknup the tricklers in the late spring earlysummer

 

[Silent Ocelot]

I have seriously used a 4 weight 2 hander for chub spey

I need to get into the chub spey game, sounds like fun. Sometimes ya gotta fish em' far away as they can be quite spooky. Same for bluegill. A lot of folks ask how I catch so many bluegill, well son, ya gotta be able to snipe these babies at 80ft if you wanna get the bigguns.

 

[Silent Ocelot]

Work on your playing/landing skills or knot tying if that many fish are breaking you off.

I'm gonna guess you haven't fished it too much from your post.

My playing skills are quite effective, I don't walk em' like a dog, hand-line everything. I could avoid break-offs and continue to use my S***** knots by going for small fish anyways... so... Been up to Penns twice.