Slot Size Limit on Erie Browns

[CaptainHook]

I was just sent this petition that was started to petition the PAFBC to establish a slot size limit for browns on Erie and tribs. I'm usually a "keep the government out of most things" type of person but I also recognize the need for regulations when absolutely necessary.

Is this one of those times?

Here is the premise for the petition from Dave Trapold Jr. who describes himself as "campaign leader."

"I'm trying to get interest in gaining support for a slot size limit for PA Lake Erie Brown Trout so that this will help keep our numbers of Brown trout up and not let them decline over time. Too many trophy class Brown Trout are being taken from the waters of Lake Erie and the tributaries of Lake Erie in PA. By doing a slot size limit this would allow anglers now and future generations to have the opportunity to catch Trophy class Brown Trout.

HOW THIS WILL HELP

By having this slot size limit this would allow anglers of today and future generation to have the opportunity to catch trophy class Brown Trout in Lake Erie and Lake Erie Tributaries and by releasing the trout that fall into the slot size limit this would achieve the goal with the possibilities of better returns of spawning brown trout and the possibilities of Brown Trout numbers to grow."

https://www.causes.com/posts/965871

 

[Reeder]

I too like to keep government out of things unless absolutely necessary. Any numbers or stats to support such an absolute need? I clicked on the link, but found none. I haven't heard anyone telling me about low brown trout numbers. Quite the opposite actually. The claim that "too many are being taken" tells me that plenty are being caught, and the Browns seem to be doing just fine without an added excuse to arrest or fine someone.

 

[RLeep2]

I did not sign the thing, but I have no objections to the idea if that is what the guys with a stake want to happen. I'm just of the view that making such a change would be more of a feel good thing for anglers than it would be of actual benefit to the Lake Erie brown trout fishery. I particularly doubt that any sort of size-based reg like the proposed slot would do anything to establish a spawning population of anadromous browns in the tribs. Several of these streams have been receiving catchable size browns for a quarter century or more under the ATW program. If browns were going to establish themselves in the main stems of these streams (they have established themselves in a few of the smaller tribs in the watershed..) they would have done so by now, which so far as I know they have not.

 

[sandfly]

why not catch and release for them, there's enough other species to keep.

 

[Reeder]

I practice catch and release, but I don't feel it should be a crime to keep a couple brown trout on a trip for the smoker or to get a once in a lifetime fish mounted. I think that as a whole, anglers police themselves well enough. When the fish disappear I might believe otherwise.

 

[salmonoid]

It is a contrived steelhead and brown trout fishery to begin with. Slot limits will not create a spawning population. As noted, where browns are capable of reproducing, they already are. It would be one more unneeded regulation.

 

[PatrickC]

salmonoid wrote:
It is a contrived steelhead and brown trout fishery to begin with. Slot limits will not create a spawning population. As noted, where browns are capable of reproducing, they already are. It would be one more unneeded regulation.

^^^^That!

 

[Fishidiot]

salmonoid wrote:
It is a contrived steelhead and brown trout fishery to begin with. Slot limits will not create a spawning population. As noted, where browns are capable of reproducing, they already are. It would be one more unneeded regulation.

True enough.

However, there's another way to think about this: the Erie brown trout fishery as a unique trophy fishing opportunity. A slot limit (presumably) would require the release of larger fish allowing for potential second or third year trib runs. If too many are harvested in small sizes, the opportunity to see real trophies is diminished. I don't think anybody seriously expects natural repro to take off - rather they want to see more browns and bigger ones and a slot limit, in theory, could enhance this.

 

[Maurice]

^^^^ and The other

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Personally I don't keep any fish from the Lakes. Since the brown Trout fishery is "new" maybe a catch and release till it's determined if they do return and spawn successfully might be in order? I'd like to see Landlocked Salmon included in the program in Pa's stocking. GG

 

[bigjohn58]

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that the majority of Erie steelhead are stockies and that pretty much all the browns were also. If stockies I see no need for much of a change in regs but then again I rarely fish up there.

 

[Maurice]

Yer right john but FI makes a good point about the fish returning in additional years. It would actually be a financial windfall to enhance a trophy fishery.

Fish stocked at 9-12 inches, returning in the 20"-30" class after a few few years is not a bad return on investment. Guaranteeing yhey get the chance protects the investment.

 

[troutbert]

Even in the same year, a fish can be caught and released, so provide additional recreation.

That's true whether the fishery is wild or stocked, and regardless of species.

"When you take a trout out of a stream, it's not in there anymore."

 

[Maurice]

troutbert wrote:


"When you take a trout out of a stream, it's not in there anymore."

Who said this?

 

[troutbert]

Maurice wrote:

troutbert wrote:


"When you take a trout out of a stream, it's not in there anymore."

Who said this?

I didn't originate that, I read it somewhere.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the writer, or I would credit him.

If anyone does know, please post it.

 

[RLeep2]

Like I say, its OK with me if this is what the guys with a stake in the fishery want. Its Lake Erie though and there are quite a few more factors in the mix than if it were a conventional inland trout fishery being discussed. This reg could be put in place and the browns could suddenly disappear from the tribs anyway. Wouldn't be the first time. Or the reg could fail to be implemented and the number of browns in the 25"-plus class returning to the tribs could triple without changing anything. My only points are that new regs have a cost in PFBC money and manpower to formulate, promulgate and enforce (they're broke if you recall...) and that as inexact of a science as fisheries management can be, it tends to be even more so when we are talking about one of the Great Lakes. Maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't. Maybe we could all simultaneously bake a pie and put it on the window sill and see if that increases the average size of the browns in the tribs.

We might be surprised...

 

[Maurice]

you ill have to be more specific on what kind of pie... today while snacking on a few sliced pieces of mango my wife cut up, I querried how long ago she had bought it. Cuz it was a little stiff with the consistancy of a granny smith apple. She said it had been two weeks or more...So I deduced that if a mango is not bought ripe, it won't get ripe. They are not bananas. Then it occurred to me that perhaps with the skills she has baking pies, perhaps a mango pie is in order. I've never heard of a mango pie, sounds interesting and delicious. Don't you agree.

But once again I was assured that if I wanted a mango pie I would have to make a mango pie. Not in those words exactly....but you get the jist.

Nothing has ever improved by sitting on your hands, except that pins and needly feeling if you are into that sort of stuff.

So I presume it would be less work for me to encourage a better Erie Brown trout fishery by backing a slot limit than baking a pie, but if I had to bake a pie, it would be mango.

 

[salvelinus]

What are the NY regs on their tribs for brown trout? Any precedent?

 

[FarmerDave]

Fishidiot wrote:

salmonoid wrote:
It is a contrived steelhead and brown trout fishery to begin with. Slot limits will not create a spawning population. As noted, where browns are capable of reproducing, they already are. It would be one more unneeded regulation.

True enough.

However, there's another way to think about this: the Erie brown trout fishery as a unique trophy fishing opportunity. A slot limit (presumably) would require the release of larger fish allowing for potential second or third year trib runs. If too many are harvested in small sizes, the opportunity to see real trophies is diminished. I don't think anybody seriously expects natural repro to take off - rather they want to see more browns and bigger ones and a slot limit, in theory, could enhance this.

That is the way a slot limit is supposed to work, but the OP suggested the opposite... That the slot fish should be returned. The result would be no different than just raising the minimum size limit. I suppose I wouldn't have a problem with that, but question the necessity. I clicked on the link, and it didn't say either way.

That said, I agree with salmonoid. It's an artificial fishery. Stocked trout are like Doritos, they will make more. Someone on here said that years ago, but I don't remember who.

Furthermore...

A lot of people seem to think these fish have a high return rate after a spawning run. If they are anything like steelhead, that is not the case. Survival of the larger spawners is actually fairly low. So, if you catch a 10 lb lake run brown, what are the chanced of it returning in subsequent years. Probably pretty low.

 

[Maurice]

I think the idea is to return the 4-5 lbers so they become 10's.

Jeff F said doritos.

And its not a Stocked fishery per see, its a put - grow- take fishery both for the steelhead and browns. And its not and ATW with thermal issues since its connected to the lake.

So the doritos comment don't cut it unless unless they start stocking those fish at the adult size.

Its apples and oranges. Once you understand that you can begin to consider improvement.

Stocked at 9"
Yr 1 return 16-20"
yr 2 return 25-30"
yr 3 return 30+"

You don't see alot of the 30"+ but the 25"-30" fish are many. They are returning a second year.

You could do that for the browns too.