Single foot vs snake guides for mono rig.

Andrwhite610

Andrwhite610

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Joined
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Berks County
I’ve recently gotten into contact nymphing with a mono rig. I’ve been using an Echo Carbon XL “euro” 10’ 3WT. Unfortunately this past weekend it broke in the upper mid section while landing a non deserving sized 12” trout. While I wait to see how my warranty service plays out I’m looking into getting a replacement/backup.

I’m looking at..

Orvis clearwater 10’ 3Wt

Or

Cortland Nymphing series 10.5’ 3WT

My main question is what is the difference between the 2 style of guides on each rod? Ive gathered that most “euro” style rods have single foot guides and most standard rods have snake guides.

I’m leaning towards the Clearwater for lower cost and they are in stock at my local TCO which I have 40$ store credit. Also it seems Orvis has a good rod repair reputation. However if the “snake” guides are going to give me an issue with a mono rig I’d rather get the Cortland rod. Am I overthinking it and are the single foot guides just a slight improvement? Also if anyone has recommendations for a different budget rod or reviews on the rods I’ve mentioned please share. Thanks!
 
Single-foot vs. snake guides... ceramic vs. wire... This discussion could go into 4 pages when others read it. There are so many pros and cons related to either one, that you're better off finding a loaner of each kind to see for yourself (or visit a shop that will allow lawn-casting one of each). I'm just guessing but if you have enough experience casting, you'll likely find no significant difference.
 
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Yeah, I am not wading into the guides question!

However, I fish the Clearwater 3 weight as my main rod, and I have no complaints and no issues with mono rigs. I also fish a 10'6" Shadow II in 4 weight for bigger rivers. Also, no complaints. In fact, if I had to replace the Clearwater, I would pick up the Shadow II in 3 weight in a minute.
 
Nymph-wristed said:
Yeah, I am not wading into the guides question!

However, I fish the Clearwater 3 weight as my main rod, and I have no complaints and no issues with mono rigs. I also fish a 10'6" Shadow II in 4 weight for bigger rivers. Also, no complaints. In fact, if I had to replace the Clearwater, I would pick up the Shadow II in 3 weight in a minute.
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Perfect. To me it really doesn’t matter. As long as no issues with mono rig I think I’ll go with Clearwater…hopefully I can get my Carbon XL taken care of. It was purchased by my wife as an Xmas gift on Amazon. I’m not sure if Amazon qualifies as an “authorized” echo dealer. Waiting on a response to my claim.
 
I don't think you would notice much difference. The only potential problem is that light mono rigs/leaders might wrap around and catch on single foot guides... ...maybe.... ...occasionally. I only even mention it because I have this sometimes happen with micro guides on spinning rods. I wouldn't make guide type the deciding factor for the purchase of this sort of rod.
 
Echo quickly responded to my warranty request and is shipping out a new section for $50 total. I get to save my Pennies this time. Thanks for the input it was still helpful! If I’m ever in a pinch I will be getting a Clearwater.
 
Ok I don't think I would be able to tell the difference, but when Euronymphing, tight lining, etc, the leader rarely moves through the guides except when playing a fish or perhaps lengthening you "cast".

Glad the cust service folks Echo were responsive to you. Good to hear. I have one ie an Echo.
 
Orvis customer service is excellent too. They got me a replacement tip within 3 days of them receiving my old rod.
 
I enjoy building nymph fly rods as a hobby so take my input with a grain of salt. In recent years higher end nymph rods have started using 2-3 snakes guides by the tip top. They say it helps prevent tangles with mono rigs or long French style leaders. I would recommend seeing how your current reel balances on the clearwater before you buy it.
 
I have been building nymph rods lately as well. Single foot guides are lighter and that seems to be the big advantage (plus half the wrapping!). Competition rods go crazy to be the lightest and weight in a longer rod that you cast non-stop is an issue. However, best ones have a couple of snakes at the tip to minimize wrapping. I fished a very expensive nymph rod last fall that had single foot guides all the way up and the wrapping issue was a real problem. The rods I have with 2 snakes at the top have much less wrapping problems.
 
czechmate18 said:
I enjoy building nymph fly rods as a hobby so take my input with a grain of salt. In recent years higher end nymph rods have started using 2-3 snakes guides by the tip top. They say it helps prevent tangles with mono rigs or long French style leaders. I would recommend seeing how your current reel balances on the clearwater before you buy it.
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great info from you and Jeff K. Sounds like the snake guides aren’t an issue at all with mono….when I put my nymph combo together I put about 5 minutes into learning about balancing and lost interest. I have a Redington tilt which does have adjustable weights. I just took one off and went fishing. 🤷‍♂️. I hadn’t thought to myself “wow this feels out of balance” so I don’t pay any attention to it. Perhaps if you have time you could explain what a well balance rod should look like balancing or feel like? Thanks!
 
JeffK said:
I have been building nymph rods lately as well. Single foot guides are lighter and that seems to be the big advantage (plus half the wrapping!). Competition rods go crazy to be the lightest and weight in a longer rod that you cast non-stop is an issue. However, best ones have a couple of snakes at the tip to minimize wrapping. I fished a very expensive nymph rod last fall that had single foot guides all the way up and the wrapping issue was a real problem. The rods I have with 2 snakes at the top have much less wrapping problems.
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Hello Jeff, What blanks have you been building your nymph rods on?
 
Andrwhite610 said:
great info from you and Jeff K. Sounds like the snake guides aren’t an issue at all with mono….when I put my nymph combo together I put about 5 minutes into learning about balancing and lost interest. I have a Redington tilt which does have adjustable weights. I just took one off and went fishing. 🤷‍♂️. I hadn’t thought to myself “wow this feels out of balance” so I don’t pay any attention to it. Perhaps if you have time you could explain what a well balance rod should look like balancing or feel like? Thanks!
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I am going to take the easy route and say check the video below. Please note they are trying to sell their rod balancing system but explains it well.


In short, a well balanced rod prevents you from fighting the tip to keep it at the desired position. Hold your fly rod like you would while fishing, from your first wrapped around finger use that as the balance point.
 
Andrwhite610 said:
Perhaps if you have time you could explain what a well balance rod should look like balancing or feel like? Thanks!
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Conventional wisdom says within an inch in front of grip. Personally I prefer the rod to balance 50/50 on my index finger when I hold the rod naturally as if going to cast. This is typically an inch or so behind front edge of grip.

When holding rod naturally if the front half is up in the air, it's rear heavy (need a lighter reel); if it's pointing down, its tip heavy, (need a heavier reel)
 
My Diamondback rod has the snake eyes right on the last few guides to prevent the tangles… I think it helps slightly compared to the guides on the contact 2. But I never found it to be a problem on the contact 2 to begin with
 
Not to complicate things, but....

If you guys are euronymphing and never shooting line through the guides at the end of your cast, you might as well be tenkara fishing 😁 And I am sure tenkara fishermen are accounting in some way for my example below:

Picture your heavy bug hitting the water on a tight line and then swinging back towards you away from your intended target on a pendulum. Contact and tight are two very different things... As I think I have shared before, you can have contact with tiny bugs if you're doing it right. Or maybe think of it this way: what happens if you flip the bail on a spinning reel before your cast finishes its complete flight?

For that reason guides are important, but I think unless you're using 6 or 8 lb test on your running line, it really doesn't matter what style of guide. Wet weather will make snake guides a bit "stickier" for mono too perhaps. Otherwise, you are good either style in my experience.
 
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Andrwhite610 said:
I’ve recently gotten into contact nymphing with a mono rig. I’ve been using an Echo Carbon XL “euro” 10’ 3WT. Unfortunately this past weekend it broke in the upper mid section while landing a non deserving sized 12” trout. While I wait to see how my warranty service plays out I’m looking into getting a replacement/backup.

I’m looking at..

Orvis clearwater 10’ 3Wt

Or

Cortland Nymphing series 10.5’ 3WT

My main question is what is the difference between the 2 style of guides on each rod? Ive gathered that most “euro” style rods have single foot guides and most standard rods have snake guides.

I’m leaning towards the Clearwater for lower cost and they are in stock at my local TCO which I have 40$ store credit. Also it seems Orvis has a good rod repair reputation. However if the “snake” guides are going to give me an issue with a mono rig I’d rather get the Cortland rod. Am I overthinking it and are the single foot guides just a slight improvement? Also if anyone has recommendations for a different budget rod or reviews on the rods I’ve mentioned please share. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I have some Echo spare parts.
 
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