Should we trust the DEP?

[Gudgeonville]

There is a presumption of guilt for the drilling companies. That is, if a water well is affected they are presumed guilty until they prove they did not affect the water well. Under the old law they were presumed guilty out to 1000'. Under Act 13 the distance they are presumed guilty is now 2500'! And most of the larger more reputable companies are testing water wells out to 3000'
In my experience, few water wells are actually ruined by drilling and the few that are are repaired or replaced by the company. Most of these high profile issues are not caused by drilling but are longstanding issues that were there prior to drilling.

 

[bikerfish]

yep, must be coincidence. good water for past 30 years, then full of crap after hole punched in ground down the road. these people are not making this up. some of them have lived in the area all their lives with good water coming from their wells.
good to hear the radius for testing and liability has increased.
the general thought about the industry in my area has really changed in the past few years. at first, lots of people were excited, seeing big $$$. Now they aren't so excited. I know some folks with rather large chunks of land, 100+ acres, most I thought would be anxious to sign leases, then finding out they didn't sign, saying they just didn't feel comfortable with the whole thing. it's good to see that people realize money isn't everything.

 

[bikerfish]

sorry, I'm grumpy and in my "I hate the gas industry" state of mind.

 

[osprey]

It's OK biker , you are NOT alone, just look at what the coal companies did , going on a hundred years ago and there are still problems on a regular basis , the same type of things will happen with the Gas companies. One thing i can add is that at the farm where my cabin is in Bedford county they take water samples every year to a county level organization who does the testing for free , i'll do some asking around to find out who that org is and perhaps the same thing exists where your well and your friends wells are. It seems to me it may have been the county conservation district office can't remember for sure but i will find out and get back 2 u.

 

[Berks]

I've heard the arguement before that drilling doesn't ruin wells. It's the fracking - the pumping of millions of gallons of chemical-laced water at extreme pressure that causes the problems. If the gas companies 'ruin' one well, their process is at fault and needs to be changed or they need to be shut down. Repeat offenders should have their licenses seized after they get out of jail.

And anyone having their water tested voluntarily and paying for it out of pocket, make sure the analysis is completed by a lab certified by PADEP or your results won't mean much to them.

 

[Gudgeonville]

Hydraulic fracturing DOES NOT affect water wells. Drilling the top portion of any gas well, whether it be a shallow conventional well, or a deeper horizontal unconventional gas well, MAY affect a water well while drilling through the aquifer. Although this is generally a turbidity issue.
IF, and this is a big if, there is some sort of surface spill and the spill gets down the back side of the gas well casing before cementing of that casing then MAYBE it can affect a VERY CLOSE water well. But once again, this does not happen very often at all. Especially now, with all of the preferred practices that are being used.

 

[bikerfish]

keep drinking the kool-aid, you'll be ok.
it does affect water wells, when there are casing failures, and there HAVE been casing failures.

 

[afishinado]

Check this accident out:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/coal-oil-gas/pennsylvania-fracking-accident-what-went-wrong-5598621



And this happened the day before at another well in Bradford County:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-20/news/29967571_1_fracking-natural-gas-bp-executive

 

[JasonS]

Pretty sure those two articles are referring to the same incident.

 

[afishinado]

JasonS wrote:
Pretty sure those two articles are referring to the same incident.

Yup, checked it out - same place same incident. Thanks.

 

[melvinp]

(Great) guess whos tower i can see from my living room window

 

[osprey]

Gudgeonville do u work for Range Resources??????

 

[Gudgeonville]

I am in the industry. Rather not say who right now. Have been for 30 plus years along with some time in the regulatory end of this so I know a bit about drilling wells. I don't think I ever made a secret of it. Why do you ask?

 

[osprey]

i'll bet y were born in texas or yr parents were? i feel i have to tell a little story here. in the mid to lat 70's early eighties i went to work during a long layoff from the steel mill for a company doing exploration for gas and oil , our paychecks had AMOCO on them , we wer4e taking "inventory" under sec of interior James Wtt opened all fed property. I know first hand the horrible things that can happen form gas/oil problems , takes hundreds of years to fix m..........,.don't try to bullshit an old bullshitter

 

[Gudgeonville]

No sir, was born right outside of Pittsburgh in a small mill town. Went to college, earned a degree as a geologist and went to work for a large local gas company in Pittsburgh. Drilled wells from New York to Kentucky with the majority being in western PA and West Virginia.
During the drilling downturn, went to work for PADEP. Am now retired from the DEP and working as a geologist in the industry again.
As I said before, not trying to BS anyone. The industry is VERY different now than it was in the 1970's. I have seen the good and the bad over my career and drilling has never been safer or more environmentally friendly than it is now. It is still an extraction industry, but the issues you are reading about, although they happen at times, the short and long term affects are greatly exaggerated.
I know because I was personally involved with a lot of them!
I am an avid fisherman and hunter and would not allow anything to affect water the way the news is reporting things.
Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

 

[osprey]

GIMZA? From east Conemaugh you still haven't explained how "casing failure" means nothing leaked?

 

[Gone4Day]

Gudgeonville wrote:
No sir, was born right outside of Pittsburgh in a small mill town. Went to college, earned a degree as a geologist and went to work...

My story is very similar. Born & raised in Butler, degree in geology from PSU in '78, been in the energy business ever since, almost entirely in the upstream. As far as knowledge of the energy business goes, folks here are great fly fisherman.

 

[Berks]

So it's the news media that's exagerating the entire situation? Or is possible that one person working for one drilling company isn't involved with every incident out there?

Preferred practices...industry speak that's prepared by the lawyers that basically says look everyone were're great cooporate citizens and we will band together to ensure our lawyers will work with other companys' lawyers to write these statements that make it appear we are doing something above and beyond...

I'd like to a list of how many POET systems each energy company is paying to operate and maintain on private water wells.

 

[Gudgeonville]

"Casing failure" is used by DEP lawyers and compliance anytime small amounts of shallow gas or "bubbles" are seen behind casing after the well is cemented even if the shallow gas or bubbles are due to coal zones, shallow natural gas zones, or sometimes just air moving outside the casing do to setting, etc. Used way to often even if that is not the exact issue. Lawyer stuff!
It is also used any time there is a failure near the surface at the base of the BOP. (Atgas well) Just because there is a casing failure doesn't mean an aquifer is touched or polluted. Casing failures can be fixed.
My personal opinion is that the problems written about are not casing failures but inconsistencies in a cement job that are usually fixed whenever they occur.

Sorry took so long to answer.

 

[osprey]

That's OK Gudge.........better late than never and i understand what you mean by that now......Thanks.