shiloh road Spring creek

[nymphingmaniac]

Hate to pull the scab off so soon...but
I just walked along Spring creek at Benner Springs. There is a large number- 30+ ? hemlock logs and an excavator at the far parking lot. I think they are extending the project to narrow the channel. BS is the warmest and most overgrown section of spring creek.

 

[wildtrout2]

Were they dead hemlocks? Can't imagine removing live hemlocks as part of any project.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Notice the op says hemlock logs....

 

[troutbert]

Hate to pull the scab off so soon...but
I just walked along Spring creek at Benner Springs. There is a large number- 30+ ? hemlock logs and an excavator at the far parking lot. I think they are extending the project to narrow the channel. BS is the warmest and most overgrown section of spring creek.

There is a very wide, slow section of stream there. I'm not sure what caused that. It might be that the landscape is low gradient there, But at the lower end of the wide, flat section is an old dam-like structure, that may be causing the wide, slow water above it. I think they should breach that structure.

What is meant by "overgrown?"

 

[wildtrout2]

Notice the op says hemlock logs....

Right, they could be from dead or live hemlocks.

 

[tomgamber]

If they are the ones I'm thinking of, it might not be all bad. Woody debris cult aside.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

overgrown- aquatic vegetation. Probably spurred by hatchery discharge and slow water

 

[troutbert]

The gravel service road is in the floodplain and right along the creek in many places. That has many negative effects on the stream. The service road should be moved back away from the stream, and to non-floodplain locations wherever possible. Then the old service road should be dismantled and that land be returned to natural vegetation.

 

[tomgamber]

This is the area I was thinking of. These were taken during the jam

 

[5footfenwick]

Were they dead hemlocks? Can't imagine removing live hemlocks as part of any project.

Good Sir, you don’t want to see the woody debris projects on the potter county brookie streams. Almost all the large live healthy shade hemlocks that were woolly resistant chainsawed down. For miles and miles. Every 20 yards. Pretty sad.

 

[TimMurphy]

Hate to pull the scab off so soon...but
I just walked along Spring creek at Benner Springs. There is a large number- 30+ ? hemlock logs and an excavator at the far parking lot. I think they are extending the project to narrow the channel. BS is the warmest and most overgrown section of spring creek.

Dear nympingmaniac,

Are talking about the section below the bridge at the hatchery where the hatchery outflow comes out?

Twenty-five years ago, that was nothing but an unwadeable and unfishable mess except for a channel flush to the hatchery side of the bank. Yes, you could see and watch trout in the frog water, but it was a muddy gunkhole for the most part even back then.

I haven't been there for years, I can only imagine that it hasn't improved itself over that time.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[troutbert]

This is the area I was thinking of. These were taken during the jam

Aren't those photos of the hatchery outflow channel, rather than Spring Creek?

 

[FrankTroutAngler]

The second photo was taken looking upstream just below the island about two to three tenths of a mile below "Rock." Or, you could say it is along the pond (dry, I believe) at the upper end of the Benner Spring Hatchery. Most of the stream would be on the left and is not in the photo. The water in the photo is mostly of the nearly dry right channel. Immediately above this island is a very deep pool.

 

[troutbert]

I went there and took a look. If you drive across the bridge and drive until you can't drive further you end up at a big SGL parking lot. The logs and excavator are there.

There have already been lots of logs placed to limit streambank erosion on the "river left" side, which is the side along the road. Starting near the parking area and extending down roughly 2 football fields in length, going around the bend and ending just above an old rock structure that I mentioned in a previous post. They probably just plan to do more of the same.

The road and part of the parking areas are in the floodplain and the stream has been eroding toward the road and parking areas. In places it's 6 feet or less between top of bank and the road. In one place it's only 3 feet!

Where a road is in the floodplain and near the stream, it's pretty much inevitable that you will need to stabilize the banks, to prevent the stream from taking out the road. It's normal for streams to erode their banks and for streams to move laterally. Stabilizing them is very un-natural and is a type of channelization.

The choice is to move the road and re-vegetate or stabilize the streambanks. The choice that is usually made is to stabilize the streambanks. I wonder if the other choice is even considered.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

it needs more work (extend bank stabilization) IMO. I agree with Troutbert about the placement of the road downstream of the bridge. Also, they (prison ) could do more to prevent dirt from running down the step hill right near the iron bridge.
I also believe it was a mistake to construct the path along the river upstream of the bridge. The erosion on the hillside seems to be getting worse each year and more trees are coming down. I fished it before they carved that path out to rock road. It was in much better shape then and fewer angle-made paths to the water.

 

[PennKev]

Also, they (prison ) could do more to prevent dirt from running down the step hill right near the iron bridge.

Isn't that all part of gamelands 333 now?

Online mapping shows only PSU land and gamelands lands on the west side of 99, Dept. justice/corrections land on the east side.

Edit. There is one very small piece of corrections land but it is pretty far from the creek.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Update. I walked along Benner Springs this afternoon. Here are photos of what they did. They installed structures on the opposite bank from the park area, a good distance. The first phase placed structures on the parking lots side of the bank. The new configuration greatly narrowed the channel and already you can see the clearing of the grass and sediment from the center. The stream is deeper and they also placed some decent sized rocks to provide cover in the stream.
If they continue down to the wide area below the island, this will significantly improve the stream IMO. Those flat areas make the Benner springs section the warmest on spring creek.

 

[joebamboo]

Looks like they pretty much removed the overhanging vegetation that fish used for cover and easy access to insect life. That grass in the middle usually disappears on it's own when the water temps change due to the fall and winter arrival. It may look pretty, but that doesn't mean it's an improvement for the aquatic insects or the fish.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

Joebamboo, on the contrary it appears these structures were installed with little disturbance to the streambank. These structures look built out into the channel to narrow an over widened reach. From what can be seen in the photos it looks like few if any shrubs or trees along the stream were cut.

 

[goose54cdd]

Update. I walked along Benner Springs this afternoon. Here are photos of what they did. They installed structures on the opposite bank from the park area, a good distance. The first phase placed structures on the parking lots side of the bank. The new configuration greatly narrowed the channel and already you can see the clearing of the grass and sediment from the center. The stream is deeper and they also placed some decent sized rocks to provide cover in the stream.
If they continue down to the wide area below the island, this will significantly improve the stream IMO. Those flat areas make the Benner springs section the warmest on spring creek.

IMO a great improvement. Colder, faster and deeper runs only help the aquatic and fish life.