Senko type fly

[afishinado]

fly_flinger wrote:
Although I haven't tried tying worms with the Orvis dragon tails, I have tied a few musky flies with them. Their action in the water is amazing not doubt. However, I cannot recommend them because they fall apart very quickly. It was extremely disappointing to see the chenille falling out from between the pieces of string that hold the tail together after casting less than 100 times. They are essentially a dubbing brush with string and chenille. Several of the flies I tied started loosing the chenille from the base of the tail, not the tip. Burning the ends with a lighter helps but you can't really burn the fat end that gets tied to the hook. I've scoured the interwebs for a solution but have yet to find one. At the Edison show over the weekend I did talk to one of the fly tiers who uses tails in his flies, about the durability issue. He said he had the same problem until he switched to a company from Oregon, that makes the tails. He said for whatever reason they are more durable and do not fall apart like the Orvis brand. Just throwing in my experience because it's sucks to spend a bunch of time tying a fly only to have it fall apart before a fish even eats it.

The Caddis fly shop in Oregon sells Dragon Tail material. The actual manufacturer is "Mangum" Dragon Tails from Florida. The Caddis Fly Shop, Feather-Craft, Orvis or any other fly shop retails the same material from the same manufacturer, I believe.

https://www.feather-craft.com/item/td152a/uv2-mangum-s-dragon-tails/1.html

I also heard they are not very durable, but 100 casts!...that sux!

Like I posted earlier, I tied up a dozen or so in a few colors, but haven't tried them out. If they disintegrate while casting they are pretty much worthless.

 

[afishinado]

fly_flinger wrote:
Several of the flies I tied started loosing the chenille from the base of the tail, not the tip. Burning the ends with a lighter helps but you can't really burn the fat end that gets tied to the hook. I've scoured the interwebs for a solution but have yet to find one.


Check out the tying video below starting at the 5:30 minute point >

 

[MKern]

I'm sure stores sell flies for $3, but there is a little more that goes into them material and time-wise.



Just saying that personally, I would never look at that and open my wallet for $3 a piece.

 

[fly_flinger]

I tried this trick and they still didn't hold up. Unfortunately, I bought about 6 different colors before I tested them out so I have a bunch to use. What I am going to do is tie in a short section of wire like one would for a trailer hook and add the tails to that using a small fastener. That way when the tail falls apart I can easily change it out.

afishinado wrote:

 

[Fly-Swatter]

afishinado: thanks for sharing that video.

I've only played with this material a little bit, but I have a few suggestions that may help with durability. In addition to his technique after the time stamp you mentioned, I would consider:

1. tying the material a little bit more forward on the hook and plamering thread though the front 1/4" of the "fluff" to bind it to the hook more.

2. Alternately ( or additionally) I would coat the front edge of the fluff with a flexible UV cure resin, focused mainly on the left and right quarters of the fluff (ie, where gills would be on a fish). This may also reinforce the fluff and add motion via a "shoulder" effect on a strip-pause retrieve. I find this to be a nice effect on the Murdich Minnow for the same hydrodynamic reason.

 

[afishinado]

Fly-Swatter wrote:
afishinado: thanks for sharing that video.

I've only played with this material a little bit, but I have a few suggestions that may help with durability. In addition to his technique after the time stamp you mentioned, I would consider:

1. tying the material a little bit more forward on the hook and plamering thread though the front 1/4" of the "fluff" to bind it to the hook more.

2. Alternately ( or additionally) I would coat the front edge of the fluff with a flexible UV cure resin, focused mainly on the left and right quarters of the fluff (ie, where gills would be on a fish). This may also reinforce the fluff and add motion via a "shoulder" effect on a strip-pause retrieve. I find this to be a nice effect on the Murdich Minnow for the same hydrodynamic reason.

Good ideas ^. I look forward to testing out the flies I have tied this spring and summer.

 

[shakey]

PennKev wrote:

shakey wrote:

MKern wrote:
I'm shocked at the price. $3 for a 6 inch section of chenille on a bass hook. Wow!

yes,especially since that hook is fairly inexpensive.

i could probably tye a hundred of these for less than $20.

Yes, but would you sell them for less than 20 cents each?

P.s. Good texas rig worm hooks are going to cost you far more than $20 retail for 100. Cheapo hooks would even get you close to the $20 mark.

apparently, you don't shop as hard as i do 🙂

what size do you want ,about a 1/0 ?

https://www.captainhookswarehouse.com/index.cfm?page=detail&hookid=432&view=1

 

[PennKev]

$10.50 + $5.50 shipping! 😛

 

[D-nymph]

There is no substitute, IMO, for quality rooster saddle hackles in the tails of predator flies. You can all keep those dragon tails, they will fall apart, don't care how much they are reinforced.

 

[shakey]

PennKev wrote:
$10.50 + $5.50 shipping! 😛

Perfect!! chenille and thread is super cheap.i have whole skeins of chenille.

way under budget!

 

[Fredrick]

fly_flinger wrote:
I tried this trick and they still didn't hold up. Unfortunately, I bought about 6 different colors before I tested them out so I have a bunch to use. What I am going to do is tie in a short section of wire like one would for a trailer hook and add the tails to that using a small fastener. That way when the tail falls apart I can easily change it out.

afishinado wrote:

I have some tails start to unravel on me when I first started using them, so now I burn the ends and coat the upper parts with fly tyers Z- ment It has worked good so far . Like the fastach Idea

 

[shakey]

AFISHN wrote:
I fish a lake in Maine for sm that go crazy for senko worms fished with the wacky worm technique on spinning gear.When I fly fish there I have only moderate success.Tried San Juan n squirmy worm flies by with poor success.Does anyone have a more substantial fly pattern that looks like a 5 inch plastic worm??Or better yet where I can buy some since I don't tie.
Would probably fish it on a sink tip line with a 7 wt rod.
Thanks
Tom

another thought is:

if you're willing to use a squirmy wormy ,why not just throw a rubber bass worm with a fly rod?

if you're using a seven weight,a smallish bass worm would be able to be cast.

you could always tye thread on the hook,if it makes you feel better!

 

[Fly-Swatter]

It might be interesting to tie either a furled chenille or Dragon Tail fly on a 90 degree jig hook with a tungsten cone(ala Meat Whistle) and treat the tail with floatant to trap air and make the tail a little buoyant.

This would be either fished on a floating/intermediate line in shallow water or a sink tip/ sinking line in deeper water finesse-style like a ned rig.

4" for early season smallies or trout.

6+" for LMB or larger predators.

 

[shakey]

this is a promising looking bass worm fly too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thPH7DiexN8

 

[shakey]

here is another contender that looks promising.

http://flyfishohio.com/Shannons_Streamer.htm

 

[Fly-Swatter]

shakey: Both look good. I bet that white minnow is killer on smallies.

 

[GRP]

Check out this one. Disclaimer, I found the video, haven't tied or fished any of these yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TYDZdC4LtM

 

[sandfly]

I started tying this way 10 years ago

 

[franklin]

PennKev wrote:

HopBack wrote:
I’ll be unpopular where and say why not just use the spinning rod. Your not going to replicate that action with a fly. There is a reason why you will catch 90 bass on a float on the susky on a senko vs 30 on a fly. I just think it’s more fun on a fly. To each his own.

Yep.

There's certain things you can do with spinning tackle you can't do with fly gear and vice versa.

Yep. You just aren't going to duplicate a Senko in a fly pattern. Even competitors that make plastic worms can't match it. It's the size, mass, and flexibility of the lure that makes it effective.

 

[jacob]

Check out the fly “snallygaster worm” it looks like it’s pretty much what you’re looking for