Segloch

[KeviR]

I’m not sure about the time period of the last survey because there were some samples of genetic material collected from some ST populations for a researcher in the 2000’s and I can’t be certain from memory that Segloch was or was not one of the sampled streams. I was not on those field crews. While that would not have been a standard survey, it would have possibly given the crew some gross sense of a change in relative BT/ST abundance if the previous survey had showed that ST were by far the predominant species…as in nearly 100% ST…and if the crew was aware of the previous species composition.

Mike, maybe I'm thick, but from context, I haven't been able to decipher what BT and ST mean. Please help??? In other threads, I've also seen RT which from context seemed to be rainbow trout.

 

[moon1284]

BT= brown trout. ST= brook trout

 

[wgmiller]

Segloch is alive and well, if you look in the right places It may not be the brookie or Class A stream it once was, but the troots are there!

 

[McSneek]

I am stunned that fish came from Segloch. Haven’t fished it in years but never caught anything close to that size at a time when it seemed full of fish.

 

[wgmiller]

I am stunned that fish came from Segloch. Haven’t fished it in years but never caught anything close to that size at a time when it seemed full of fish.

I was surprised as well. He came from the bottom of a plunge pool, so he definitely had a good hiding place. A sculpin pattern dropped over the edge brought him up!

 

[wildtrout2]

Segloch is alive and well, if you look in the right places It may not be the brookie or Class A stream it once was, but the troots are there!

View attachment 1641224800

Beautiful wild brown!

 

[Fish Sticks]

Segloch is alive and well, if you look in the right places It may not be the brookie or Class A stream it once was, but the troots are there!

View attachment 1641224800

Nice catch! Avg sized seglock brookies I remember probably suffered same fate as that sculpin pattern. I hope they can gene bank those brookies soon.

 

[Mike]

The largest Brown trout and possibly the first and only only Brown Trout that I ever collected when sampling the roughly 300 m site that is just inside the
lower SGL boundary was a 15 incher sometime between 1993 and 1996.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I am stunned that fish came from Segloch. Haven’t fished it in years but never caught anything close to that size at a time when it seemed full of fish.

Segloch is alive and well, if you look in the right places It may not be the brookie or Class A stream it once was, but the troots are there!

View attachment 1641224800

This video is another example of a PA brook trout stream where population is being decimated by an invasion of brown trout. The stream was surveyed before 2 years apart by Tom Clark from Susquehanna river basin commission. There are some crazy findings that show just how hard these browns predate on brookies between 11min and 11min 30 sec in the video if you don’t want to watch the entire study. I don’t know if anyone on the forum fished this one before and after. A lot of people know brown trout outcompete brook trout for a number of reasons in most instances but alot of people don’t know how heavily they actually feed on brook trout populations, it’s insane. They do this around the world outside their native range with galaxids, Himalayan snow trout and the list goes on and on.

 

[silverfox]

This video is another example of a PA brook trout stream where population is being decimated by an invasion of brown trout. The stream was surveyed before 2 years apart by Tom Clark from Susquehanna river basin commission. There are some crazy findings that show just how hard these browns predate on brookies between 11min and 11min 30 sec in the video if you don’t want to watch the entire study. I don’t know if anyone on the forum fished this one before and after. A lot of people know brown trout outcompete brook trout for a number of reasons in most instances but alot of people don’t know how heavily they actually feed on brook trout populations, it’s insane. They do this around the world outside their native range with galaxids, Himalayan snow trout and the list goes on and on.

This is something I struggle with a lot. We're devoting a lot of resources to AMD restoration. I've personally put a lot of miles on my legs and mountain bike hauling water sample bottles, doing macro surveys, measuring wetted widths and flow, and writing grant applications with the goal of increasing brook trout habitat. I'm optimistic all of the partners will greatly improve the watershed (not Katzer run).

At the same time, there are populations of Class A BT further down in the watershed and I am concerned that we'll eventually do so much good that we end up doing tremendous harm. Right now the chemistry keeps the populations isolated. We're doing what we're supposed to be doing. Improving water quality. The big question is whether we're ultimately causing more harm by initiating displacement than the initial expansion of habitat provides?

 

[JeffP]

That's a beaut! I think you posted that before? I thought maybe that is where you caught it, if I remember correctly!

 

[Fish Sticks]

This is something I struggle with a lot. We're devoting a lot of resources to AMD restoration. I've personally put a lot of miles on my legs and mountain bike hauling water sample bottles, doing macro surveys, measuring wetted widths and flow, and writing grant applications with the goal of increasing brook trout habitat. I'm optimistic all of the partners will greatly improve the watershed (not Katzer run).

At the same time, there are populations of Class A BT further down in the watershed and I am concerned that we'll eventually do so much good that we end up doing tremendous harm. Right now the chemistry keeps the populations isolated. We're doing what we're supposed to be doing. Improving water quality. The big question is whether we're ultimately causing more harm by initiating displacement than the initial expansion of habitat provides?

Yea I think everyone volunteering/ restoring streams has these concerns if you talk to PhD’s working with brook trout, read Dr. Kurt Faust’s observations about brown trout displacing brook trout from prime habitat, or read John Hoxmier/ Dr. Dieterman’s observations on presence(large brown trout), or read this case study https://www.kiaptuwish.org/wp-conte...tion-Manuscript_Wild-Trout-Symposium_0917.pdf

Since this is an area of active research we will probably see more on this in the future and I will post updated research on the conservation forum incase people are interested.

 

[Swattie87]

This is not unique to Segloch, or any specific stream for that matter, but “large” wild Browns in small freestone streams are exceptionally hard to catch. I define “large” in this context as say anything 13” or bigger. These fish are among the toughest Trout in PA to catch, outside of perhaps the same size or bigger fish from small, classic, limestone springs, as small limestone springs typically don’t even give you the occasional high, off color conditions that small freestoners do where these fish are more vulnerable than normal to being caught.

Back to Segloch. It’s like most other small freestoners. The fish are small. The average Brookie is well below legal size, and the average Brown is in the typical 6-8” range that you see in PA small freestone streams. I’ve caught one 13” Brown from it, 2013 or so I think, during the most recent habitat renaissance after the floods. I know of a different 15” Brown that was caught at about this same time. The habitat I caught mine in is still there. It’s probably the best holding spot remaining on the whole SGL stretch, though it’s much shallower now than in 2013. The hole that the 15” fish a buddy caught is completely gone now. Since then, the best fish I’ve seen or heard about is that fish wg posted above (from the pic I’m guessing that’s about a 12” fish), and I don’t know that I’ve caught anything bigger than 8” or so. The fish are small, as to be expected.

 

[Fish Sticks]

This is not unique to Segloch, or any specific stream for that matter, but “large” wild Browns in small freestone streams are exceptionally hard to catch. I define “large” in this context as say anything 13” or bigger. These fish are among the toughest Trout in PA to catch, outside of perhaps the same size or bigger fish from small, classic, limestone springs, as small limestone springs typically don’t even give you the occasional high, off color conditions that small freestoners do where these fish are more vulnerable than normal to being caught.

Back to Segloch. It’s like most other small freestoners. The fish are small. The average Brookie is well below legal size, and the average Brown is in the typical 6-8” range that you see in PA small freestone streams. I’ve caught one 13” Brown from it, 2013 or so I think, during the most recent habitat renaissance after the floods. I know of a different 15” Brown that was caught at about this same time. The habitat I caught mine in is still there. It’s probably the best holding spot remaining on the whole SGL stretch, though it’s much shallower now than in 2013. The hole that the 15” fish a buddy caught is completely gone now. Since then, the best fish I’ve seen or heard about is that fish wg posted above, and I don’t know that I’ve caught anything bigger than 8” or so. The fish are small, as to be expected.

I know that the 2 foot donkey browns people get in streams that are small mouth water are always felt to run up into these small creeks in summer which you rightfully point out isn’t always true, sometimes your just capped at 13-15”. I have heard of instances where manhole cover sized springs in smallmouth water provide cold water all summer long for refuge in these 80ish deg streams for these large fish.

 

[wgmiller]

That's a beaut! I think you posted that before? I thought maybe that is where you caught it, if I remember correctly!

Yessir! It was posted before.

 

[nomad_archer]

I live 5 minutes from segloch and have had limited success there in recent years. Seems others have as well. But it may be worth giving it a try occasionally.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

This is not unique to Segloch, or any specific stream for that matter, but “large” wild Browns in small freestone streams are exceptionally hard to catch. I define “large” in this context as say anything 13” or bigger. These fish are among the toughest Trout in PA to catch, outside of perhaps the same size or bigger fish from small, classic, limestone springs, as small limestone springs typically don’t even give you the occasional high, off color conditions that small freestoners do where these fish are more vulnerable than normal to being caught.

Back to Segloch. It’s like most other small freestoners. The fish are small. The average Brookie is well below legal size, and the average Brown is in the typical 6-8” range that you see in PA small freestone streams. I’ve caught one 13” Brown from it, 2013 or so I think, during the most recent habitat renaissance after the floods. I know of a different 15” Brown that was caught at about this same time. The habitat I caught mine in is still there. It’s probably the best holding spot remaining on the whole SGL stretch, though it’s much shallower now than in 2013. The hole that the 15” fish a buddy caught is completely gone now. Since then, the best fish I’ve seen or heard about is that fish wg posted above (from the pic I’m guessing that’s about a 12” fish), and I don’t know that I’ve caught anything bigger than 8” or so. The fish are small, as to be expected.

I've caught a hog or two from Segloch as well. In the "toilet hole". I"m assuming that one is long gone...

 

[Swattie87]

I've caught a hog or two from Segloch as well. In the "toilet hole". I"m assuming that one is long gone...

Yeah, the toilet hole is gone. Bank on the eastern side eventually gave out and rearranged about 30 yards or so down into that next hole. That next hole down is still there, as is the rock chute hole/run further up. There’s one new hole that a temporary deadfall has carved out pretty good (where wg’s fish above came from) but pretty much everything else is filled in pretty good with sand right now. And once that deadfall goes and removes the small plunge it’s creating, that one will fill in and turn to junk pretty quick too. In warmer weather you can still look to pick off some dinks on dries in the pocket water near the old dilapidated cabin, but the primo real estate for Pool Boss type fish is slim pickins’ right now.

Edit: Looked back at my notes. I first fished it in 2010, a total of three times before the floods of the Fall of 2011. Caught 0, 0, 4, in chronological order. 3 Brookies/1 Brown, all dinks.

Fished it 7 times from 2012 to 2017…3, 8, 13, 12, 9, 3, 6. 29 Browns/25 Brookies. 13”, 10” and 9” Browns, and two 9” Brookies in that run. I’d say by 2016-2017 I was noticing the sand really filling in again.

I’ve fished it 5 times since 2018…0, 0, 0, 2, 3. 4 Browns/1 Brookie. 8” Brown was the biggest.

This sound similar to everyone else? The fish are still there, but how it fishes is all habitat related IMO. This is true on all streams, but Segloch, and it’s neighbors, are especially prone to frequent and more severe habitat rearrangements given their geology.

Short version: It’s in Lancaster County, and has wild Trout in it. That’s good. But don’t go there expecting good fishing until after the next 25-50 year flood event.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

yeah....I figured. I'll be up in PA at the end of May for a conference. Will surely be hitting up that region of Lancaster, especially the PS Rd. area. How is "that trib" doing? When I moved, it was increasingly getting silty, but still had good pools/runs.

 

[Swattie87]

yeah....I figured. I'll be up in PA at the end of May for a conference. Will surely be hitting up that region of Lancaster, especially the PS Rd. area. How is "that trib" doing? When I moved, it was increasingly getting silty, but still had good pools/runs.

Been a while since I’ve personally fished it. It’s filling back in with sand too. Have heard reports of Browns being more common, especially in the lower end. Should make it a point to fish the upper steep stretch this year and see how it’s doing.