SE Pa Stocked Trout Residency Surveys

[bearfisherman]

From personal experience float stocking, I would say that goldens move the most of all. Even though we float stock about 2 miles of stream, the goldens all tend to move to find each other in the same hole or holes.

Last year, we had a total of 6 goldens spread out over the entire stretch in good habitat, and they ended up all being in the same hole for the first day. When you stand out that much, I guess it is safety in numbers.

And of course, 75% of the fisherman on that stretch were around that hole...

 

[Lonewolve]

Imho one of the best things to do is watch a dvd by Ozzie Ozefovich? He has a lot of great footage of trout facing the current Tim Murphy. I would never have believed it if I hadn't witnessed this my self. Just because the current rushes downstream does not mean that the trout faces upstream ,its all dependent on how the current is in the stream. Also you will learn to stop and fish the faster currents too, which surprisingly hold a lot of fish that get overlooked. I believe this is the second video that Ozzie has or better yet if your TU books him for a presentation it will be a booking well booked.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear lonewolve,

I was merely being sarcastic with my remark about rainbow trout. They aren't known as "Troutus Hatcherius" without reason.

I find that that in streams where rainbows are stocked with other trout that they are less likely to rise and that predilection lasts much longer.

I fish a few stocked streams, Muncy Creek being the prime example, that see browns and rainbows stocked together. If I throw junk flies most of the time I catch rainbows. If I throw flies that imitate trout food in one of it's various stages of life like an emerger or a soft hackle wet I still find that rainbows generally don't bother with it. Rainbows when recently stocked rarely rise to anything other than the "kerplop" of Powerbait or a piece of cheese popcorn.

In places where they are the predominant specie of trout, like the Westt Slope of the Rockies, I am sure they act more like real fish.

That rarely happens in PA though and that is all I meant to say.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[SNPbound]

So all of this research for hatchery raised fish an what's being done for the wild fish If I may ask mike?

 

[troutwilleatflies]

Back to my LL question.Many years ago a RT was the exception and the BT was the majority of the fish stocked.Back then the fishing for holdover/wild BT was exceptional,not so now.
The ST is the only true wild native trout in Penna.
If the state would target the LL with BT instead of the RT/ST it might be a better fishery,of course cleaning out the silt/sewarge/agr.run off would also be a BIG positive.
Sorry for the rant,I still remember the LL as a premier stream,not what it is today.

 

[SNPbound]

If I'm not correct by all means correct me...... I'm sure you guys would anyway; but don't all of the streams mike listed support a wild trout population? Why arent they doing studies studies on the wild fish to imrove them? Maybe because they would lose license revenue I'm guessing...... And we all know its about the almighty dollar!

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear troutwilleatflies,

Here's even more fuel for the fire.

I never ever fished the LL before 1987 except for a few worm and corn excursions a long time ago as a child.

You talk about how the LL would fish if it had the proper trout in it and all I can think about is how it would fish if it had the proper amount of water in it?

When you fish the fly stretch on the LL and you haven't been fishing it for 20 years or more just consider that the gravel scrunching and crunching underfoot used to be the streambed. It used to carry twice the amount of water that it carries now, even during times of low flows.

Honestly, that is a bigger problem than most people care to think about.

Before someone asks me what we should do about it I'll answer. We either need to lower our expectations for the stream, and all other streams in the region, or expect to be disappointed with regularity.

There is only so much water on Earth.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

 

[troutbert]

The way the study is designed, a fish that moves more than 200 meters downstream is considered "gone."

But that is only 656 feet, i.e. .12 mile. I fish could easily move that far, or a 1/4 mile or 1/2 half mile, and still be within the stocked stream and still be available for fishing.

If the fish disperse from the stocking point to avoid the crowding, and to move away from shallow, featureless water, to find good holding water (depth and cover) I would consider than an indication that the trout are behaving according to their normal instincts.

And that would be a good thing for recreation when the fish are spread out some from their stocking point.

The inability to distinguish between a fish that has gone 700 feet downstream, which is not very far, and one that has gone down to the Susquehanna River limits the value of the study, IMHO.

 

[troutwilleatflies]

Tim,I started fishing the LL in the 40's as a child,as I grew older I really saw some excellent times in the 50's &60's.Then progress started to degrade the stream and it really has gone downhill the last 10-15 yrs.Back then the majority of fish in the LL were BT,stocked and native.As far as amount of water you may have a point but it still runs cold in the summer,I think quality of the stream is a much larger problem.
Talking about the original topic I remember when I used to assist in stocking that those fish would sometimes move,usually downstream,hundreds of yards right after hitting the stream.Of course that depended what type of water they were thrown into,fast and shallow vs deep and slow.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear troutwilleatflies,

We are both kind of off topic for this subject so Ill quit soon. I'll defer to you from here on out on the LL, you obviously have far more experience with the stream than I do.

Still, if I may get one last shot in, you can't sink 10,000 new wells in the drainage and expect nothing to change. That is what I was getting after.

Take care,

Tim Murphy

 

[Mike]

"The inability to distinguish between a fish that has gone 700 feet downstream, which is not very far, and one that has gone down to the Susquehanna River limits the value of the study, IMHO."

The value of the studies is that they expose problems in the stocking program that precipitate adaptive fisheries management resulting in potentially less waste of angler dollars and more recreation. With greater than 50% residency, measured as I described, no management actions are required, although I tend to make species adjustments if the ST or BT are performing only at par or worse. Between 40% and 50% residency, some actions are suggested, such as a species change and a re-evaluation to determine whether the switch has worked. Below 40% action is required, such species changes/reevaluation, angler counts on opening day to determine usage, a review of angler perceptions or experiences with the fishery in recent years, shifting preseason stocking close to opening day, shifting entire stocking program to inseason only stockings, and in the worst cases removal of the stream from the stocking program.

 

[Mike]

Regarding the LL discussion, flow may be a problem; I don't know enough about historical flows vs present flows to express an opinion. With the development, however, lower flow would not be surprising, along with higher, habitat destroying stormwater flows. My comment about the LL is that most of its problems are habitat related. Problem areas are barren, uniform, pea gravel/sand substrates...and there is a lot of that type of habitat. Areas that have not been degraded in this way have very good wild brown trout populations.

 

[troutwilleatflies]

Mike,I agree with what you say about the LL.But,why is it being stocked with RT/ST and not BT?

 

[UFMGuy]

Lonewolve wrote:
Imho one of the best things to do is watch a dvd by Ozzie Ozefovich? He has a lot of great footage of trout facing the current Tim Murphy. I would never have believed it if I hadn't witnessed this my self. Just because the current rushes downstream does not mean that the trout faces upstream ,its all dependent on how the current is in the stream. Also you will learn to stop and fish the faster currents too, which surprisingly hold a lot of fish that get overlooked. I believe this is the second video that Ozzie has or better yet if your TU books him for a presentation it will be a booking well booked.

I would recommend Ozzie's presentation to anyone who fishes trout. I have seen his presentations. You can learn more about trout behavior in his underwater videos than any book because you see it first hand.

If you need a quality speaker for any angling group, you can't go wrong with Ozzie! PAFlyFish.com should even consider him as a possible speaker for the Jam.