Rough weather leads to decrease in Pa. fishing license sales down ~10%

[DaveKile]

Rough weather leads to decrease in Pa. fishing license sales. Fishing licenses in Pennsylvania are down 10-11% primarily because of the cold weather and high waters that greeted anglers over the start of trout season. Just as interesting is in 2023, the agency sold 448,884 licenses and 397,782 trout and combination permits by April 21. This year anglers have purchased 401,875 licenses, a 10.47% decrease, and 353,602 trout and combination permits, a decrease of 11.11%.

That seems way down from 2020 or 2021

Rough weather leads to decrease in Pa. fishing license sales; better fishing weather ahead

High water and cold weather kept some from fishing during the start of Pennsylvania's trout season. However there's plenty of time to enjoy the sport.

www.goerie.com

 

[dudemanspecial]

2020 and 2021 were riding the covid wave of people doing stuff while they were home instead of at work.

What does this year look like compared to 2010-2019?

Edit: I did the legwork, and was suprised by the numbers. From 2010 to 2019 sales hovered around 1.3 million. 2020 it actually dropped to 900k, then dropped again to 800k in 2021. So yeah, it is and has been slipping since the covid years.

 

[Nocktavius]

Good. With a little luck they’ll go bankrupt

 

[EyeAmShaf]

I feel like more and more stream accesses are getting posted in my area anymore! I remember when I was a kid Four Mile run was all open to fish! Now there are purple markings everywhere! I wonder if post covid and less and less access is driving people away?

 

[The Rodfather]

I am deeply concerned about this trend in fishing licence sales. I have been monitoring the numbers over the years and it was troubling to see the low numbers during covid, but unfortunately the decline in the past couple years is a result of years of mismanagement. Further, if this trend continues much longer it will threaten the already unsustainable stocking practices.

Cost of licence and quality stream access are the biggest hurdles we have. The number of good streams I come across that are posted or painted is staggering. It's hard to continue to sell fishing licenses to guys that are paying double what they did just a few years ago and then they walk out to fish the creek they know nearby only to have it posted now.

Hopefully the powers that be are able to see these trends for what they are and not just "well, we had some rain, let's try again next year"

While I personally would enjoy less people out fishing the same places I want to, the bigger picture of more people out enjoying the outdoors and conservation efforts are more important to me and I'd like for that to be the case.

 

[dudemanspecial]

While I understand not everyone is on the same financial playing field, I can't comprehend how one could complain about the cost of a fishing license. Its less than filling up a tank of gas in an suv.

 

[Prospector]

In the last 20 years my only license check was about 6 years by a WCO who walked down the footpath along kettle creek. He checked me below the “football hole” in the FFO section which has been nonexistent for years. This section of creek has very few fishers.

How many people have figured out that fishing without a license is pretty low risk. I regularly fish in 3 states and my check rate is 5% in PA and 0% in NY & OH. None of the states require the license to be displayed.

 

[jifigz]

I disagree with quite a bit of what has been said on here. First of all, wishing the PFBC to go bankrupt is a bit extreme. Wishing that they have to curtail their stocking efforts due to financial strain is a better view, at least in my opinion. They do a lot of good with their lakes and other WW opportunities, and I think someone has to be responsible for helping to manage that. Plus, no matter if we agree or not with the PFBC ultimate decisions, having biologists and field work being done is incredibly important and beneficial.

If I had to guess, fishing license sales will continue to decline as society and the focus of our citizens shifts to other areas of interest. Outdoor recreation as a whole seems to be down, so it is not unique to PA and our management. Basically all states are seeing declines in the interest in these types of pursuits, and their license sales reflect this.

I, too, agree that the cost of a license is not a lot of money. Given how much everything else costs, it seems reasonable and in line.

I couldn't care about the stocking program. I haven't caught a stockie yet this year. I have even fished in waters that are stocked, but I just am not finding the stockies. It is all just wild browns.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

If I had to guess, fishing license sales will continue to decline as society and the focus of our citizens shifts to other areas of interest. Outdoor recreation as a whole seems to be down, so it is not unique to PA and our management. Basically all states are seeing declines in the interest in these types of pursuits, and their license sales reflect this.

I, too, agree that the cost of a license is not a lot of money. Given how much everything else costs, it seems reasonable and in line.

Anecdotally, I think the decline is temporary. In my immediate circle of family and friends, I know a lot of kids and teens who are obsessed with fishing in general. The parking lots in Fairmount Park in Philly look a lot like Lincoln Financial Field parking lots on game day on any nice weekend afternoon, so outdoors is still a draw for many folks.

Can't agree more with the cost thing too. It costs a minimum of 15 bucks to eat lunch out. What's it cost for a tank of gas? In contrast, the price of a license is nothing for the good the Commish does.

 

[Cznymph]

I disagree with quite a bit of what has been said on here. First of all, wishing the PFBC to go bankrupt is a bit extreme. Wishing that they have to curtail their stocking efforts due to financial strain is a better view, at least in my opinion. They do a lot of good with their lakes and other WW opportunities, and I think someone has to be responsible for helping to manage that. Plus, no matter if we agree or not with the PFBC ultimate decisions, having biologists and field work being done is incredibly important and beneficial.

If I had to guess, fishing license sales will continue to decline as society and the focus of our citizens shifts to other areas of interest. Outdoor recreation as a whole seems to be down, so it is not unique to PA and our management. Basically all states are seeing declines in the interest in these types of pursuits, and their license sales reflect this.

I, too, agree that the cost of a license is not a lot of money. Given how much everything else costs, it seems reasonable and in line.

I couldn't care about the stocking program. I haven't caught a stockie yet this year. I have even fished in waters that are stocked, but I just am not finding the stockies. It is all just wild browns.

You really feel that they do a good job with lakes?

I’m primarily a lake angler these days, I’ve found the PFBC owned lakes to have facilities in terrible conditions. Poor maintenance of ramps, dirty restrooms, accesses not plowed for days after a snowstorm. Add in the 10 plus years it’s taking for a lake rehab project, and the unclear future of the North East Marina, I don’t really feel that those of us who don’t fish for stocked trout are really getting little value from our licenses.

 

[phiendWMD]

It seems insane to structure an agency so that one rainy weekend can affect their year so much. Especially when there is good trout fishing all year.

 

[DaveKile]

I think many are talking about different opinions on the issues. I would be interested to see what are the license sales of other states and country. I would guess all states in our region have been seeing slowing sales. Southern states and the west are likely flat or increasing. Just my speculation.

Prices for a Pa license is cheap and the least of the issues.

The sport of trout fishing has been transitioning especially in the Northeast. It's never one thing being the issue, but many things that add up.

 

[jifigz]

You really feel that they do a good job with lakes?

I’m primarily a lake angler these days, I’ve found the PFBC owned lakes to have facilities in terrible conditions. Poor maintenance of ramps, dirty restrooms, accesses not plowed for days after a snowstorm. Add in the 10 plus years it’s taking for a lake rehab project, and the unclear future of the North East Marina, I don’t really feel that those of us who don’t fish for stocked trout are really getting little value from our licenses.

Around me, yes, I have zero complaints about the PFBC managed lakes. Maybe I am too easy to please. It is public water with fish in it. I have never been to a PFBC lake that has restrooms. Porta-Potties, yes, but managing those is up to the company that they run them from. Are the public launches that I use on the Juniata River suitable? Yes, I have zero complaints there, too.

I am not concerned about snow on the launches. If a lake rehab project is taking too long, then I would fish elsewhere.

Obviously, there is a clear dichotomy and bifurcation between the two camps, and this theme has been in play here for a while. Camp 1: PFBC bashers and haters and, really I think no matter what they would do or say, it would only be a negative viewpoint of them.

Camp 2: Those that are happy enough with the results, but know there are some holes in the ship. I am in this camp, obviously. I am satisfied with what I get for my money. I have never once felt myself limited or lacking the fishing opportunities that abound near me. I can fish for wild trout, stocked trout, smallmouth bass in a river, LMB in a lake, walleye, catfish, crappie and sunfish, all within a plethora of locations and within a 30 minute drive. What do I have to complain about?

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Personal experience... I've been biting the bullet and purchasing a non-resident license for over 30 years. Even recently with the license + trout stamp cost of $80+ I consider it money well spent - and I may only get on PA water only 5-10 times in a year.
I've also paid for non-resident licenses for three boys when they reached the age that required having one.

 

[jifigz]

Anecdotally, I think the decline is temporary. In my immediate circle of family and friends, I know a lot of kids and teens who are obsessed with fishing in general. The parking lots in Fairmount Park in Philly look a lot like Lincoln Financial Field parking lots on game day on any nice weekend afternoon, so outdoors is still a draw for many folks.

Can't agree more with the cost thing too. It costs a minimum of 15 bucks to eat lunch out. What's it cost for a tank of gas? In contrast, the price of a license is nothing for the good the Commish does.

I know it is still a draw for people, but is that percentage increasing or decreasing? The trend is showing a decrease. It may be short lived, and it may be temporary. Who knows? Only the future knows what it will bring.

I know kids that are super into fishing, too, but I live in a rural redneck county. Catching fish and shooting deer is what we do. Now that I am teaching and in a public school setting, I see how much these kids love going fishing for the stockies. How many of them will carry on and become fanatics like we are? Probably not many. Most will be the people that take their kids fishing for the stockies and only fish temporarily, too.

 

[poopdeck]

My total guess would be license sales are down because of;
1) Multi year license. I haven’t purchased a license since 2017 and won’t until 2027. Not sure if I get counted as buying a 2024 license when I paid for it in 2017.

2) Anglers retiring and moving to greener pastures like Montana, Florida or the Carolina’s to name a few. It would make sense that areas experiencing angler population growth would see increased license sales while the places they are coming from see a decrease.

3) An entire generation growing up in their parents basement. They can go to school in the basement and they can later live and work in the basement. They can and do make many more friends among the vast army of basement dwellers as compared to riding the school bus or at the office water cooler.

4) The slow death of the baby boom generation.

 

[dudemanspecial]

I disagree with quite a bit of what has been said on here. First of all, wishing the PFBC to go bankrupt is a bit extreme. Wishing that they have to curtail their stocking efforts due to financial strain is a better view, at least in my opinion. They do a lot of good with their lakes and other WW opportunities, and I think someone has to be responsible for helping to manage that. Plus, no matter if we agree or not with the PFBC ultimate decisions, having biologists and field work being done is incredibly important and beneficial.

If I had to guess, fishing license sales will continue to decline as society and the focus of our citizens shifts to other areas of interest. Outdoor recreation as a whole seems to be down, so it is not unique to PA and our management. Basically all states are seeing declines in the interest in these types of pursuits, and their license sales reflect this.

I, too, agree that the cost of a license is not a lot of money. Given how much everything else costs, it seems reasonable and in line.

I couldn't care about the stocking program. I haven't caught a stockie yet this year. I have even fished in waters that are stocked, but I just am not finding the stockies. It is all just wild browns.

I agree with almost everything you say here, however I do question the statement that outdoor recreation as a whole being down.

My family spends as much time as we can exploring the PA outdoors and everywhere we go the parks are packed, the rivers and lakes are full of kayaks and boats, the campgrounds are full and the tourist attractions have a mile long line.

People just aren't fishing and hunting as much for some reason.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

My total guess would be license sales are down because of;
1) Multi year license. I haven’t purchased a license since 2017 and won’t until 2027. Not sure if I get counted as buying a 2024 license when I paid for it in 2017.

2) Anglers retiring and moving to greener pastures like Montana, Florida or the Carolina’s to name a few. It would make sense that areas experiencing angler population growth would see increased license sales while the places they are coming from see a decrease.

3) An entire generation growing up in their parents basement. They can go to school in the basement and they can later live and work in the basement. They can and do make many more friends among the vast army of basement dwellers as compared to riding the school bus or at the office water cooler.

4) The slow death of the baby boom generation.

That is definitely an interesting consideration, the aging population.

Has the Commish every changed the price of the senior license the way they keep moving social security and retirement account dates?

 

[wildtrout2]

People just aren't fishing and hunting as much for some reason.

If that's indeed the case, I'm okay with it.

 

[mgmunson]

I agree with almost everything you say here, however I do question the statement that outdoor recreation as a whole being down.

My family spends as much time as we can exploring the PA outdoors and everywhere we go the parks are packed, the rivers and lakes are full of kayaks and boats, the campgrounds are full and the tourist attractions have a mile long line.

People just aren't fishing and hunting as much for some reason.

I was going to question the statement that outdoor recreation is down, but I think it depends on the metric. From 2020-early 2023 you could hardly find a mountain bike, and if you did you'd better buy it on an impulse cause it wasn't going to be around long. You couldn't even find components because people were fixing their old bikes or all the components were going to new builds. The market stabilized mid-2023 and now good luck selling one! The secondary market is flooded, I guess all those covid bikers realized it's not for them.

If you're a winter sports enthusiast, you know the ski industry saw the same influx of people becoming skiers/snowboarders. However, I think there are a few other factors at play that blended the covid surge into the current surge. Seasons are becoming shorter across the country, causing more demand on fewer weekends. Mega passes are now attainable for around the cost of 5-6 days worth of day passes. The "casual" skier/boarder is now a pass holder and can go to a handful of different resorts based on conditions and amount of open terrain. So are there more skiers and snowboarders, or are the same number of people riding more days because of buying an epic or ikon pass?

But then on the other hand, I used to be a whitewater guide in Ohiopyle. The company I worked for would have 3 sellout or near-sellout trips per day from may-august. That's one company sending 300-400 people down the river per day. There are 4 companies in town. From talking to current guides, there's rarely a fully booked trip except for maybe Memorial day, Labor day, and 4th of July weekends. But in the same breath, try to book an RV site at Ohiopyle campground. Weekends are likely booked through August (I haven't checked, but last year that was the case).

None of this really applies to fishing license sales, other than the fact that statistically some significant(?) portion of the people participating in the sports above would be expected to buy fishing licenses. And that it has me questioning whether outdoor recreation is down, or just shifted to other outdoor activities.